Member Survey: What 1.x-Y variable optic do you use?

[Canonshooter]

SWFA SS 1-4x24 in a LaRue LT-139 mount.

This package was used on a "RECCE" style rifle that was intended for IDPA carbine matches and precision shooting. Note - I no longer have this upper.

Thoughts on scope;

1. I liked the First Focal Plane Illuminated Donut (Circle/Mil-Scale) reticle. It worked well on 1X for up-close shots and at 4X provided good precision. The mil/mil reticle/turret adjustments are really easy to use.

2. For the longer range precision I intended for this upper, greater than 4X magnification would be benefical.

3. Overall build quality of the scope is excellent.

4. The power ring is stiff, especially in cold weather. IMO, the cat tail offered by SWFA is a must. Even with the cat tail, there is considerable resistance to turning.

5. Optical clarity is very good, noticeably better than the Bushnell 1.25-4x24 Elite I tried before it.

Note on the Bushnell 1.25-4x24 Elite - I found it on Amazon for $319. For a "$300 scope" I had no complaints.

6. Illumination is bright enough to see in all but the brightest outdoor conditions. However, I never used the illumination as the reticle was sharp and easy to see.

7. Like most scopes, it has an adjustable ocular (eyepiece).

8. The "eye box" was more generous/forgiving than the Bushnell's.

9. Scope weight is listed as 17.5 ounces (without mount), middle-of-the-road for this class of scope. Mount will add another 7 to 8 ounces to the package. If you decide to go the 1-4 route, be aware of the weight you'll be adding.

Final Thoughts

This is probably the best 1-4X "tactical" scope available in this price range. Great reticle, easy to use mil/mil reticle/adjustments, nice optics, sturdy build and great CS from SWFA. IMO you really cannot go wrong with this scope. Unlike the lower priced Bushnell I tried before it, I never felt as though I had "settled for something less" with the SWFA. I had read an opinion that you would have to spend at least 50% more to do better - I think that is an accurate assessment.

If you have a few hundred more in the budget, the new 1-6 version looks even better.

[Alaskapopo]

This is not a "I use optic A from B company" thread. We have enough of those. One-liners need not apply. If you don't have time upon initial reading to type out your full thoughts, come back to it later. Pictures and videos welcome.

Be thorough, be specific (make, model, power range), link to the product if it still exists. State what you use it for (LE patrol, 3-gun, military operations, plinking, training, etc.) and your role.

Include what other optics, including RDS, you have used and if possible compare to your 1.x-Y optic. Speed up close, precision at distance, etc. and if you have numbers to quantify the difference post that, if not be clear that it's "feel". BE SPECIFIC.

Also include any impressions, even "feelings".

I realize there are other threads along these lines, but if there are no objections I think it would be great to have a repository to compare notes. If this thread works out well we can direct inquisitions relative to this topic to this thread to help answer people's questions.

Please feel free to ask questions of the posters but keep them civil. At the same time, if questioned please assume the poster is asking a legitimate question from a genuine standpoint not as an indictment. If you're only posting a question as a veiled attack or indictment, keep it to yourself.

I run a Swarovski Z6i BRT on my three gun rifle . I also run a TR24G on my SCAR. I have used ACOGS, Aimpoints, Eotechs etc. The Swarovski is in my opinion the best in its class. Its clear, has a good usuable reticle and its simple. The field of view is awsome. I can shoot it as fast on 1x as a red dot from a stationary position. If I am moving and shooting I find my off set Aimpoint R1 a bit faster for me. I just got done confirming my dope out to 400 yards while getting ready for a major match. I was very happy. I could easily hit 6 inch autopoppers from MGM at 330 yards. A 12 inch circle at 400 yards (hanging steel) was boringly easy. The clarity in this scope is just great. As for magnification I have used all the setting at matches at one time or another with 1x, 3x and 6x being the most common. It depends on the range and size of the targets.




Pat

[SA80Dan]

Vortex Viper PST in a Bobro Extended Mount on my 3 Gun rifle. Have found this scope to to be excellent for my use - also bang for buck is outstanding.

Glass is incredibly clear with no fisheye effect. When dialed to 1x power, the eyebox on this scope is huge - very unpicky as to where you have your head, I notice barely any difference between using this and a red dot. The reticle is very easy to pick up for close in speed work; not that it bothers me as I use it without the illumination unless it is a very dull day, but the one thing that could be improved is the illum could do with being a little brighter.

Shooting at range, again the reticle really shines - the stadia lines work very well when working out your holds. I shoot out to 400 on occasion with this, and at 8" plates at 200-250 regularly. Given the turrets are also adjustable, you have the option of also using them to dial. Personally for me on a 3 gun rifle, I'd sooner use the holds and to be honest, the exposed adjustable turrets are a bit of a liability when dumping your rifle in barrels, pulling it out of your bag etc - one time the windage turret shifted 2 MOA when I was pulling it out of my bag just going into a long range stage, which messed me up. Lesson learned - I have now gotten the turrets taped up so they can't move. If it had been available when I bought the PST, I'd much sooner have gone with the HS, which is the same scope but with capped turrets making it a better choice for 3 gun (and practical/tactical) shootings knocks and bumps (and its also cheaper).

Comparison - I can compare this to a Trijicon TR24 I had. For me, the PSTs reticle works better....especially at range. I also feel the glass on the PST is *slightly* superior to the Trijicon - on that at 1x, I could detect slight fisheye at the edges where on the PST there is none as far as I can see.

In summary, a very nice robust and clear scope for not a lot a lot of money - although for practical type shooters, now that it is available, I'd advocate the one with the capped turrets (as I understand it, I think they are now doing away with the HS name, and it is now called a PST (capped), which is probably more fitting and avoids confusion.

[Failure2Stop]

I picked up one of the first runs of the SWFA 1-4 "T" reticle with capped turrets. It was returned a few months after purchase due to illumination issues. SWFA replaced the entire optic with the latest generation, and I have had no issues since.

The positives have already been covered above, so I won't rehash them.

Other low power variables I have used for significant amount of time:
S&B Short Dot (early generation)
Millett DMS
Swarovski Z6i BRT
Premier Reticles 1.1-8X
I have played with numerous other low-powered varibales, but not enough to gauge their durability or for more than a few rounds under only one or two different conditions.

The only currently available optics that threaten the SWFA on my primary rifle are the Z6i and the ShortDot. Z6i for being in a new class and the SD for being a tank (I am not a big fan of the thin reticle, but that's another discussion). I am very interested in the Leupold Mk6 1-6x TMR. Not so much for the SWFA 1-6x. The reticle was changed on the SWFA, which I like less, and the weight is pretty high for a gun that needs to be nimble. The .2 mil adjustments on the Leupold aren't what I am used to, but I might be willing to get over myself to take advantage of that optic .

[lifebreath]

Caveat: Please keep in mind I have never been in combat or life-threatening situations involving firearms. I've been around firearms for 40+ years, but only recently have gotten into the AR realm. I have spent a considerable amount of time in the past year taking tactical training classes, running drills, getting involved in 3-gun and buying more stuff than I need! I've also looked at other people's setups trying to evaluate what works, what does not and why. Despite my short experience in this realm, I am a fast learner and I have no problem making authoritative statements that I will read a year later and simply shake my head in disbelief. That being said ...

I run a Swarovski Z6i 1-6x24 with BRT reticle on my 3-gun rifle (Noveske 16" Combat Carbine upper on LMT rifle length lower). I run a Trijicon TR24 Accupoint Trijicon TR24 1-4X24 Accupoint with green triangle on my Knights SR-15, which I have used for carbine classes and some 3-gun. I run an Aimpoint Comp M3 on my BCM 14.5" for HD and carbine classes. I also have two ACOGs, a TA31 (4x) and TA11 (3.5x).

First, I'll get the ACOGs out of the conversation with a few comments. I love ACOGs - bright, clear glass, nice reticles, no batteries, bombproof and lightweight for magnified optics. I've never been in combat, but I would think these would still be an exceptional all-round combat optic. However, for QCB, HD or 3-gun, there are much better options ...

Next, I'll comment on the Aimpoint Comp M3: no better optic for CQB-type shooting and HD. Fast, light, and reliable. Keep it on always and don't worry about the batteries. Just change them out every five years, four if you want to be certain.

Swarovski Z6i 1-6x24: I think there is simply no better optic for 3-gun. The clarity of glass is unparalleled in this class, and the mildot-based BRT reticle with illumination is unsurpassed for the higher precision mid- to long-range shots required in the sport. The cross hairs are not too thin nor too thick and are appropriately in the 2nd FP. Hold overs on longer shots, and wind holds, are pretty simple and quick with the reticle giving just the right amount of information without being cluttered. The illumination is there when needed, either for targets lost in dim shadow or for close-up work. The 1X setting with illumination is fast - not quite as fast as my Aimpoint or my Trijicon TR24, but plenty good for 3-gun stages requiring close up shooting. The eye box is sufficiently forgiving, but not as easy to get behind as the TR24, and I wish the turret adjustments were finer (they are 3/20 mil per click, or .54" @ 100 yards). You need a buttstock/optic mount combination that gives you an easily repeatable cheek weld so you can quickly get behind the scope and stay there. All in all, I simply love this scope - it's a work of art. And it costs as much as a work of art at $2400 or so. I was very fortunate to spend the past 3 days training for 3-gun competition with Daniel Horner and his dad (two exceptionally fine human beings). There's a very good reason he runs this scope and wins! (He could probably win running anything, but the Z6i is his first choice).

Trijicon TR24: Fast, fast, fast on CQB. I like this scope on 1X in daylight better than any. The big, glowing green triangle on a post is super fast and draws the eye immediately. The super easy eye box makes it a breeze to get behind and scan during target transitions, while that big, blazing triangle comes into alignment between eye and target. Just squeeze the trigger. Glass is bright and clear, but not Swarovski bright and clear. Reticle is deceivingly simple, yet effective ... at least out to 200 or so yards. At 300+, the base of the triangle can be used for holdover, but the posts are too thick and obscure the target. Plus, the clarity of glass starts breaking down about at that point. It can be used, but it really excels at 200 yards and in. It's lightweight and uses no batteries, which is a plus, and has a nice control for limiting light to the fiber optic. The tritium illumination at night is good, but will be washed out with a light. However, the post is easily visible in such case and is quite useable. The diopter adjustment on mine migrates counter-clockwise when shooting a significant number of rounds and needs a piece of electrical tape or equivalent to hold it in place. I've read about others having the same issue, and this should not happen on a scope in this price range. However, I think the TR24 is an exceptional value at $850 or so.

[TahoeLT]

I've been running an Elcan SpecterDR for a couple years now. I use it for classes, range and training, so no combat use. It's a little bulky/heavy (though not too much compared to, say, and ACOG with mounted RDS).

It is a 1-4x (pretty damn close to true 1x), and I primarily use it in that role--it compares favorably to the Aimpoints I've used in FOV, parallax and eye relief. My only complaint there really is battery life--if they could incorporate Aimpoint's tech they would be supreme.

The really nice feature is the "push-button" 4x, which comes in handy for quick target PID or snap longer-range shots. It's a lot handier than the Short Dot or similar twist-magnification scopes, both going to 4x and coming back to 1x.

The mount is the typical Elcan monster, and the ARMS levers leave something to be desired, but I don't remove it from the weapon often, and I've never had to re-zero it when I do. Bottom line, if they got the battery life up and maybe offered a different mount, it would be a no-brainer for me; as it is, it's still good enough for everything I want it to do. (I should add that I got a pretty sweet deal on it, so I didn't pay close to retail...)

[aguila327]

Just got my Lepould VXR patrol 1.5-4, SPR and am very happy with the quality of the glass and its general construction. I have it mounted of a Bobro P.O.M. (quality, all around on this mount).

I've only had two other scopes, one a bushnell banner, and the last a Nikon M223 1-4. I was happy until I looked thru the VXR. Its a noticible difference. I guess that old saying "you get what you pay for" is right.

Since my dept. wont allow magnified optics for personally owned patrol rifles, this scope will be relegated to 3-gun and range fun for now. Have my 1st 3-gun match this coming Saturday so I'll se how it performs for me. So far sighting in has been completed and it seems promising

[olds442tyguy]

Trijicon TR21.

Hated the triangle reticle. The connection line beneath it made holdovers annoying. Glass was good. Illumination was okay, but never an issue. On 1.25 it was usable as a heads up optic. On 4X I felt it lagged a bit. Sold it to fund another project and regret it, but only for greed as the prices went stupid on them compared to when I purchased it.

Optisan Mamba.

Shit on an 1X setting. Foggy and lacks focus. Crystal clear from 2X up. Illumination is apparent in daylight, but not red dot visible. The circle dot is easy to pick up without it though. The green illumination doesn't show at all during the day, but is great at night. Good for a practice optic for $150. My cheap plinkers always have a habit of shedding lower end gear for the good stuff, which is the case here as well. This optic will be going to the low end product wasteland drawer next week.

[amac]

Great thread and just what I'm looking for, as I am in the market to change my optic. My 3 gun optic is a Vortex PST 1-4x. As mentioned above, the eye relief and glass clarity are great. I love the circle and dot concept for CQB, especially hosier stages. The scope has been rugged, holds zero and doesn't weigh my 18" rifle down.

For me, the drawbacks are the lack of daylight visible illumination. However, I've never found the need. The easily visible circle and center dot are more than adequate. Second, I don't like the busy stadia line for holdover when shooting out to 300 and beyond. The holdover hash marks are too similar in size, hard to pick up on the RFP and maybe it's my 40 year old eyes, but they seem to blur together (when shooting long range). Finally, the exposed turrets are the top item on my pre-stage check list. I have found my turrets moved on multiple occasions. I test this regularly at the range and the good news is, the scope returns to zero every time!

I've recently decided to make an optic switch and have been looking hard at all the available scopes and planned release scopes. The swaro is high on the list. A 3 gun buddy has let me use his Z6i and I personally felt the illuminated reticle lacked the PST's speed up close. Zooming out to shoot mid range, the Z6i is far superior. The reticle is just cleaner to look at.

Ideally, I'd like to see a FFP or even DFP that provides the speed characteristics of an Aimpoint/EoTech for up close, then zooms in to display a clean, clutter free mil dot reticle. A straight bullet drop reticle like USO's GAP reticle at 6x or even 8x would be great. Add in locked turrets with 1/10 mil clicks and I'm good to go. Unfortunately, this is unobtanium.

I also run a H-1 on my SBR. What more can be said, this little monster rocks for its designed purpose. My first optic was an EO. I generally liked its up close features, but felt the size was a liability. What's more, I've seen too many go down and fall off carbine's while at training classes. I'm sold on the Aimpoint.

[ffhounddog]

Leupold VX-3 1.5-5x circle dot.

I have it mounted on a Mid Length rifle and it works well.

Battery is not close to aimpoint battery life but it does take the same battery as my compM2/Aimpoint Pro so if you have one of those you can have a standard battey if that matters. Very clear glass. I like it so far but I have just used a few 1-6x Leupolds and 1-4x SWFA. I prefer the Leupold but it could change. I really liked the GRSC scope I got to shoot with that was in 1-6x.

ffh