Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 79

Thread: Trouble zeroing with irons only.

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    32
    Feedback Score
    0
    My AR has an atrocious trigger right now. I'm looking to upgrade when a better unit is in stock (have my order in already) but for now I'm just living with it. Anyhow, my groups at 100 yards aren't so great either. I was blaming the trigger, but I decided to test that by dusting off my .22.

    My CZ-452 is a known laser accurate shooter to me, but I noticed that even with it my performance wasn't so great. Three or so bricks of .22 ammo later, my shooting with both rifles has improved. My 100 yard open sight groups with it are generally between 2" and 4" and I've even managed to obliterate small chunks of clay pigeon and bottle caps that were left at the range at that distance a few times when there was no wind and I was just a little bit lucky.

    I'd suggest to the OP that he either sort out what's wrong with his rifle (if he is shooting well with other guns) or get some practice on the fundamentals with a rimfire. I'd think that it is likely in the sights because I've never heard of a gun that wouldn't get some kind of a group at short distances. Even my 20 gauge groups at that range with slugs and just a front bead. Hell, even the .75 caliber flintlock musket I used to have would do 5" groups at 25 yards with a .715 ball and newspaper or dry grass for wadding! The only thing I've personally experienced that gave wandering groups like the OP described were loose scope mounts, so I'd make sure the sights were good and solid.
    Last edited by goon; 04-16-12 at 12:11.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,710
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    I'll throw a few of suggestions at you. First off, how big is the target you are shooting at 50yds.? If it is too big you will have trouble placing your sights on the same spot consistently from shot to shot. At 50 with irons I wouldn't use anything bigger than 2 inches. Second, concentrate on your trigger pull, try hard for a consistent squeeze from shot to shot, and control your breathing at close to let off. Lastly, immobilize your rifle, especially at the buttstock, try not to bear down on the barrel too much.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Braselton, GA
    Posts
    1,727
    Feedback Score
    26 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by DeviousMind View Post
    Hey all, I have a 16 BCM middy with a FSB and a troy Di-Optic FoldingBattlesight. Went to the range today to try an zero. Needless to say I was getting pretty frustrated. Never attempted this before but I couldn't get any of my shots close to each other. I know I am new at shooting AR's but I also knw that I am not that horrible shooter. I started out at around 150ft and none of my bullets went where I was aiming. Some where high and right, and some where high and left. I then made some adjustments and the rounds went pretty much the same. Was using PMC 223 ammo. I was shooting from a bench with a Bipod. Had to quit because I didn't have the right tool to help raise my front site post. Any and I mean any advise would help me out here.
    This sounds very much like a cheekweld/head position thing to me. Marksmanship fundamentals are key, and some most often overlooked are cheekweld and natural point of aim. I shot AR's for 7 years and HATED peep sights because I could never group consistently with them, while I could shoot other types of sights just fine. In a conversation with a high power shooter, he introduced me to the NPOA concept. I tried it and instantly had much better results.

    The gist of it is to achieve a cheekweld and head position such that you can do it with your eyes closed and when you open them, the sights are perfectly aligned. If you're having to muscle your head or the gun into sight alignment, you're doing it wrong. Also pay attention to stock position in your shoulder and stock length. Don't just do what looks cool. Find out what works for you and learn from there.
    Semper Paratus Certified AR15 Armorer

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Lone Star State
    Posts
    1,095
    Feedback Score
    11 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by TomMcC View Post
    I'll throw a few of suggestions at you. First off, how big is the target you are shooting at 50yds.? If it is too big you will have trouble placing your sights on the same spot consistently from shot to shot. At 50 with irons I wouldn't use anything bigger than 2 inches. Second, concentrate on your trigger pull, try hard for a consistent squeeze from shot to shot, and control your breathing at close to let off. Lastly, immobilize your rifle, especially at the buttstock, try not to bear down on the barrel too much.
    You know, I'd actually say that a 4" circle is better for 50. If you have ever looked at those official 50yd small bore targets, they're always 4" in diameter, for example (Also, those 100yd smallbore targets are always 8" in diameter, so it makes sense that the one at half that range is half that distance. 2", while doable does get a little hard to see.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,710
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by rojocorsa View Post
    You know, I'd actually say that a 4" circle is better for 50. If you have ever looked at those official 50yd small bore targets, they're always 4" in diameter, for example (Also, those 100yd smallbore targets are always 8" in diameter, so it makes sense that the one at half that range is half that distance. 2", while doable does get a little hard to see.
    Even though it might be a little hard to see (I'm 58 and can see it) the idea is to have just enough target to place your sights precisely and consistently. IMO the larger the target the less consistent in placement.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Lone Star State
    Posts
    1,095
    Feedback Score
    11 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by TomMcC View Post
    Even though it might be a little hard to see (I'm 58 and can see it) the idea is to have just enough target to place your sights precisely and consistently. IMO the larger the target the less consistent in placement.
    Alrighty, I understand what you're saying.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    541
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by O3SKILL View Post
    The 300m BZO (Battle Sight Zero) allows you to strike a man sized target from 0-300m without having to make any adjustment to your iron sights.
    Thanks for the link. Not sure I totally understand the 300m BZO, as it certainly doesn’t work for me, and 95% of my shooting is at a place I can not get further out than 50 yards. I didn’t measure, but it looked like my shots were a good 12" low at 50 yards. While I’m not an expert marksman, I’m Not that bad of a shot, specially since I sighted in another new rifle that day that started off shooting 11" right. When I was done, I was getting 3/4 inch groups in the bull at 50 yards. That was also my first experience with a scope ever. I know what I need to do next range trip with the 6920. By the time I got to the 6920, I was tired, and just didn’t understand what was going on.
    Gary
    Will Fly for Food... and more Ammo

    Alcohol, Tobacco, & Firearms should be the name of a convenience store, not a government agency.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    244
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    Bipods are rarely the answer unless you are trained in their use or are unable to assume a prone position. They bring their own set of issues depending on weapon configuration. If possible, shoot off of sandbags or a pack, or use a magazine monopod technique.

    You might not be a bad shooter, but if you are shooting 5 inch groups at 50 yards, you are doing something wrong or your weapon is severely dicked up. PMC ammo, while certainly not threatening to secure the winners table at long range, is more than capable of consistent 2 to 3 inch groups at 50 yards. Group size is a function of the shooter, weapon, and ammunition. Sight adjustment simply moves that group to where you want it.

    For consistent shot placement, fundamental marksmanship techniques are critical. Here is a thread that talks about fundamental marksmanship:
    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...l+marksmanship

    One thing that might be hurting you is your choice in rear sights.
    The traditional rear sight has small circular apertures in which one places the front sight horizontally and vertically centered. A small round hole makes that easier than a large diamond.
    I consider the diamond aperture to be oriented toward the experienced iron-sight user.

    Sight adjustments:
    Most front sights will move the round about 1" at 50 yards per "click" or detent when at the standard M4 position. If you are using a front sight at another position (such as with a middie or longer handguard) the adjustment will result in slightly less movement per "click".

    Turning the sight counter-clockwise will raise the front sight post, resulting in shots going lower than initially. Commonly, the front sight will be marked "UP" with an arrow pointing to the left. Turning the sight clockwise (toward the arrow) will result in the srtike of the round rising, as the front sight is being driven deeper into the front sight base (making it shorter).

    Adjustments can be made with pretty much any tool that will depress the plunger. I have used everything from bullet tips to purpose built front sight adjustment tools. I really prefer the tool. If you have never adjusted your front sight, drip a little lubricant into the front sight detent area, as many come from the factory quite stiff and adjustment resistant.
    Absolutely brilliant insight in your linked post. Thanks very much for sharing.
    "Never confuse movement with action."
    Ernest Hemingway

    Join the NRA - protect our 2nd Amendment rights.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    541
    Feedback Score
    0
    I got back to the range yesterday and took a friend who had never shot an AR before. Since I had someone with me, I was mostly distracted, and forgot I had put a bunch of reading material on adjusting the front sight in my log book. First off, I thought the arrow on the FSP meant the direction to turn the sight to bring the post up, so I turned the post counter clockwise. It was bright and sunny and very difficult to see what we were doing. Bullet tip did not work. Took both of us to hold the rifle and a pen to hold the button down, and a knife to turn the sight, and it was extremely difficult to do. After discovering we adjusted the sight the wrong way, I got it back down to where we started, and a bit below, but still no joy. I had to give up. Put it away and got some other guns out so we could have some fun. There has to be an easier way to adjust the front sight. Today I spent a lot of time reading and searching on the subject figuring there had to be a tool for adjusting the front sight. Found one and ordered one. I’m now wondering if I haven’t buggered up the front sight with the knife so much that the tool I ordered might not work. I’ve never had this kind of trouble with the sights on a new gun.
    Gary
    Will Fly for Food... and more Ammo

    Alcohol, Tobacco, & Firearms should be the name of a convenience store, not a government agency.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Posts
    4,859
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    Short of photos to the contrary, that's unlikely; if you've scraped off finish, that's just cosmetic.

    Even the type-specific tools can be tricky to FIT so that they rotate that thing correctly...I have one Troy BUIS that won't take any of the tools, period...

    ...which is why I still carry a very small nail-punch and usually a couple of 10d finish nails in my tool kit. A 5# box of nails from the last carpentry job I worked in 1998 has been keeping me supplied with simple, works-every-time front sight post adjusters for a loooong time.

    A bullet-tip will work, IF the tip is sharp enough to begin with, but only barely, and only until the tip of a single bullet is chewed up. It's an if-nothing-else method.

    May be worth putting a small drop of lube on that pin, and it'll get easier after some time getting used to the whole push-then-rotate thing.
    Contractor scum, AAV

Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •