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Thread: Single stage vs. Double stage trigger for SBR

  1. #41
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    I used a SD3G for a while to see how it performed (both in application and durability) compared to stock GI triggers.

    It has some very nice things about it, but it is a different animal with a different application than a stock GI single stage trigger. The trigger characteristics do not give it a hard "edge" to the break, which to me feels a lot like a Glock trigger, you just press through the length of travel with constantly increasing pressure. It works well for the blend of shooting technique in gun games. It has a fast reset (compared to other 2-stage triggers), so very fast splits are possible (about as fast for me as a GI single once I was used to it).

    What I found out though was that I can get the same performance from a GI trigger in 99% of my shooting. I am not heavily invested in competitions, I shoot them for fun when the schedule allows. The 1% of my shooting that a good 2-stage trigger shines is long-range (past 300 meters). When doing precision shooting at those distances the hard edge and crisp release of the precision oriented 2-stage triggers allows more precise release, and thus better performance. This applies to more than just leather slinged yellow-glasses wearing gravel bellies in retro-bondage jackets.

    I decided to stick with standard GI triggers (especially for instructing/demoing) for my serious guns, but I still have a nice 2-stage for certain applications.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  2. #42
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    It's an SBR, put the money into something you'll really benefit from like training, or even ammo so you can really learn how to run an SBR. If it was a longer gun where precision came into play more, then I would thing Ok.
    "In the end, it is not about the hardware, it's about the "software". Amateurs talk about hardware (equipment), professionals talk about software (training and mental readiness)" Lt. Col. Dave Grossman. On Combat

  3. #43
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    I gotta agree with Rob and F2S and echo a few things. A couple - three months ago I built a 3 gun specific rifle with a S3G trigger in it. I basically did head to head, pure speed testing with the trigger and noticed that if I shot the S3G trigger too much before the GI type trigger, I started short stroking the GI trigger. Ironically I could not shoot the S3G faster or with any noted improvement in accuracy within close combat distances over the USGI. Fastest splits with the S3G was .11's and fastest with a Colt USGI was .10's. Fast forward a couple - three months and I have been running the 3 gun rifle A LOT. Too darn much. I noted severe issues in my performance with a USGI trigger and I was not performing any better over the USGI triggers. One could argue that I should just run high performance triggers all the time, but I cannot and quite frankly do not want to do that in my working rifles.

    I also noted that the ALG trigger which I also have around 2K rounds through it now gives me no improvement over a standard USGI trigger in an up close weapon. Some think I am a hater for a particular brand(s) but I will be the first to say, that Geissele and ALG make the absolute best triggers in their respective classes. Necessary on a non-magnified, non-precision, carbine and up close or even intermediate ranges? Far from it as far as I am concerned, so the cost to performance ratio isn't there for myself.

  4. #44
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    For me it the smoothness of a trigger what really matters the SD3G is 3.5lbs but i wish it were 5lbs, the ALG ACT is a smooth 6lbs and feels great. Last week at the NRA Range I was shooting at a Warren target which would expose to me for 2 seconds with my 3gun rifle BCM SS410 18" rifle gas bbl, SJC Titan brake, JP LMOS BCG, using a CAR buffer and spring in a Magpul PRS and using a Geissele SD3G. Optic was my Schmidt & Bender 1.1-4x Short Dot at 1.1x with the illuminator on. I was getting splits between .11 seconds to .125 seconds.
    With my 16" BCM BFH LW midlength using a Surefire brake, BCM M16 carrier, H buffer w/Sprinco blue spring and a ALG ACT trigger and using an Aimpoint H1 in a tall LaRue mount. I was getting splits in of .14 seconds to .16 seconds. I may try a standard rate CAR buffer spring and/or a CAR buffer because the gun definitely feels like its cycling slower. It could be in my head because when I'm warmed up and shooting at high rates of speed it seems time slows down and I have a heightened state of awareness.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
    Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)

  5. #45
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    Discussions like this that stay on topic sure are interesting.

    I did a little research as some of the opinions contrary to mine come from guys who seem to have a pretty good handle on things.

    Found some quotes from the SME sub forum.

    From Pat McNamara

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac1 View Post
    Hello LP.
    I am running Geissele SSA triggers in all of my ARs. Real bang for the buck in my opinion. I view a good two stage trigger as a 'Battlefield Multiplier'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mac1 View Post
    A good two stage trigger offers a good shooter the ability to know exactly when the hammer will fall. This is absolutely necessary when having to take a discriminating shot with accuracy. Having to discern and take an accurate mid-range shot with a fighting carbine is not only possible but likely. Hence, battlefield multiplier.
    Too light is not the case with an SSA
    From Mike Pannone. I trimmed this down as Mike covered a lot of ground in his post.

    Quote Originally Posted by MP01 View Post
    My overall take on the Stoner platform is relatively simple based on the assumption that all parts are properly fabricated and installed. A good quality barrel that is free-floated, has a properly headspaced bolt and a good quality trigger is the rifle. The rest is operator/personal preference. My preferences are the following for a combat focused rifle:

    • Geissele trigger
    For a more in depth look into Mike’s thinking on triggers for the AR you can go to this link.

    http://www.defensereview.com/the-cas...-and-accuracy/

    Larry Vickers had this to say:

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Vickers View Post
    Most of the AR's I have are fitted with stock triggers- I am just not very picky on my triggers anymore

    I do have some fitted with 'enhanced' triggers - and of course on a rifle like an SPR it is a must

    So bottom line some of my guns have them but most don't

    Cheers
    LAV
    I notice that most of the guys who have used a good 2 stage in combat (Geissele SSF) seem to have a distinct preference for the 2 Stage in their personal carbines.

    If you spend most of your time inside 25 yds and a full A-Zone is your target then the GI trigger has a lot to offer. (just kiddin)

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Burns View Post
    I did a little research as some of the opinions contrary to mine come from guys who seem to have a pretty good handle on things.
    For you, the only one that should matter is your own provided it's based on actual experience. I will always take what my target and my own experiences tell me. Most people will source the SME that matches their preconceived notions, not use an SMEs opinion to make their own informed choices.

    See my signature line.
    Last edited by rob_s; 04-22-12 at 21:01.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    For you, the only one that should matter is your own provided it's based on actual experience. I will always take what my target and my own experiences tell me. Most people will source the SME that matches their preconceived notions, not use an SMEs opinion to make their own informed choices.

    See my signature line.
    Well I am working on it. (I am slightly over double your aforementioned AR round count year to date)

    Shot a few clean 1/2 & 1/2 drills today (modified to half the time and half the rounds) and banged steel out to 700yds with the same carbine.

    Of course it had a Geissele DMR trigger set at 2 1/4 lbs first and 1lbs second. Seemed the 2 stage was more of a help than a hindrance.

    Do I find solace in the fact that guys who have used a good 2 stage trigger in combat seem to have a real affinity to the design? Well yes I do.

    Does the fact that this coincides with my own testing give me make me even happier with my choice of triggers? Well yes it does.

    Some might refer to that as a clue and I need all I can find.

    Here is a short video showing movers at 280 yds. Target is the 2 inch vital zone at the craw of a turkey. Don't try this with a GI trigger.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzSXoinj9TA

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Burns View Post
    I am slightly over double your aforementioned AR round count year to date
    Yep, it's been a very light carbine year for me. My head finally popped out of my ass and I realized that I was wasting a ton of time and money on a play gun and ignoring the gun that was with me every day. Maybe I should have just put that Vanek in from the beginning and then I wouldn't have to actually try to be good.

    Don't try this with a GI trigger.
    You're joking, right?
    Last edited by rob_s; 04-23-12 at 04:49.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Yep, it's been a very light carbine year for me. My head finally popped out of my ass and I realized that I was wasting a ton of time and money on a play gun and ignoring the gun that was with me every day. Maybe I should have just put that Vanek in from the beginning and then I wouldn't have to actually try to be good.



    You're joking, right?
    I hope hes joking. American's were shooting turkeys and other animals long before 2 stage triggers and semi automatic rifles lol. At that distance if not further with 1 shot rifles with iron sights.. So if we can do that, then it shouldnt be too hard for a guy to hit a turkey with a USGI trigger at that distance. Im sure he would have hit that turkey with the same rifle and a USGI trigger. Just saying lol

  10. #50
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    What is SME

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