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Thread: "Fast" AR

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    Either way is gong to be good, and the effect of your brake is going to cover any minor difference.
    I had a Noveske 18" SPR in my 3-gun rifle and it was a great setup in all regards, if just a bit barrel heavy.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
    Which is exactly why I went with the Noveske Rogue Hunter 18".

  2. #102
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    Good to hear. I can only get the LW barrel in Intermediate and it's a bit cheaper also. It's looking more and more like a Rogue Hunter upper is what I'm looking for.
    HIPPIES SMELL

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by glocktogo View Post
    Which is exactly why I went with the Noveske Rogue Hunter 18".
    After doing what I'm thinking about doing, would you do anything different?
    HIPPIES SMELL

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedreaux View Post
    After doing what I'm thinking about doing, would you do anything different?

    Other than a different scope, no. I've been 100% happy with the rifle. All I've changed is the trigger, which was a Geissele SSA. It now has a S3G trigger, which is more in line with it's purpose.
    Last edited by glocktogo; 06-22-12 at 13:57.

  5. #105
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    The line between "Tactical" and "Game" accessories is often very distinct. I think we may be thinking a little too much into it. Some examples...

    A Surefire 100 round mag (or any of the current and early competition mags / mag connection systems) would cut times in competition due to less mag changes, but makes going prone nearly impossible.

    A muzzle break will make follow up shots easier, but the amount of flash, concussion, and noise make it a poor choice for home defense, law enforcement, or military teams.

    Traditionally, tube handguards didn't offer a means to mount things like lights, lasers, etc. So while a light isn't necessary in competition - it's a must have for HD, LE, Mil. So being able to wrap your hand around the bore was great for competition - but no rails made it a no-go for the "Tactical" crowd.

    I chose these 3 examples because we are seeing compromises with each, to bring them over to the "Tactical" side.

    Surefire 60 round mags are quad stacked to allow more ammunition on tap without sacrificing the ability to go prone.

    You have "intermediate" muzzle breaks - most notably the BattleComp - that offer compensator benefits without obnoxious flash, concussion, or noise.

    The new style tube handguards have removable rail sections to allow mounting of accessories. This allows a lightweight, slim profile handguard that the competition world has embraced long ago to be used by the "Tactical" community.

    If the idea behind this build is to make a rifle based on these devices that blend the competition and tactical world - then you know what to look for.

    Someone brought up the idea of reliability and durability being two different, distinct things. This is an important point. Both "Game" and "Tactical" shooters want reliable guns and accessories. But the "Game" crowd will put more emphasis on speed over durability, whereas the "Tactical" community will take a sacrifice in speed for a gain in durability.

    Think of it this way - if a product came out that would cut the times of competition shooters by 50% - but it only lasted say 400 rounds (guaranteed) before rendering the rifle completely unusable - you would have a ton of "Gamers" buying and using such a product. They would just keep track of their rounds and make sure to replace it before the 400 rounds are up. The flipside is such a product would almost certainly be shunned by the "Tactical" community - because of the durability issue.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve S. View Post
    The line between "Tactical" and "Game" accessories is often very distinct. I think we may be thinking a little too much into it. Some examples...

    A Surefire 100 round mag (or any of the current and early competition mags / mag connection systems) would cut times in competition due to less mag changes, but makes going prone nearly impossible.

    A muzzle break will make follow up shots easier, but the amount of flash, concussion, and noise make it a poor choice for home defense, law enforcement, or military teams.

    Traditionally, tube handguards didn't offer a means to mount things like lights, lasers, etc. So while a light isn't necessary in competition - it's a must have for HD, LE, Mil. So being able to wrap your hand around the bore was great for competition - but no rails made it a no-go for the "Tactical" crowd.

    I chose these 3 examples because we are seeing compromises with each, to bring them over to the "Tactical" side.

    Surefire 60 round mags are quad stacked to allow more ammunition on tap without sacrificing the ability to go prone.

    You have "intermediate" muzzle breaks - most notably the BattleComp - that offer compensator benefits without obnoxious flash, concussion, or noise.

    The new style tube handguards have removable rail sections to allow mounting of accessories. This allows a lightweight, slim profile handguard that the competition world has embraced long ago to be used by the "Tactical" community.

    If the idea behind this build is to make a rifle based on these devices that blend the competition and tactical world - then you know what to look for.

    Someone brought up the idea of reliability and durability being two different, distinct things. This is an important point. Both "Game" and "Tactical" shooters want reliable guns and accessories. But the "Game" crowd will put more emphasis on speed over durability, whereas the "Tactical" community will take a sacrifice in speed for a gain in durability.

    Think of it this way - if a product came out that would cut the times of competition shooters by 50% - but it only lasted say 400 rounds (guaranteed) before rendering the rifle completely unusable - you would have a ton of "Gamers" buying and using such a product. They would just keep track of their rounds and make sure to replace it before the 400 rounds are up. The flipside is such a product would almost certainly be shunned by the "Tactical" community - because of the durability issue.
    I think you dismiss the durability requirements of heavy competition users. Many competitive shooters will run 400 rounds in a single practice session. If a consumable part had to be replaced after every practice session, it better not cost more than $5-$10.

    What are consumables on an AR? I think they're fairly few. Obviously action springs, extractor springs and gas rings are on the list. Game shooters probably spend more time and dollars looking for long lasting springs than the tactical types, who will just buy an inexpensive (but quality) Colt spring and be done with it. As you get more rounds downrange, bolt and barrel life come into play. I think any of Noveske's barrels are going to last as long as any other. Game shooters may eventually erode a comp as well. That's not an issue with a flash hider.

    Otherwise, I think the most important distinction between game shooters and tactical types is the accuracy requirement. There's a reason a lot of gamers spend money on JP, Noveske and WOA barrels. They're not satisfied with 1-2 MOA capability. While most of their shots are up close speed shots, there are plenty of rounds fired at extended ranges and small targets.

    My 18" Noveske Rogue Hunter CAN serve effectively as a game gun, tactical rifle and hunting rifle all rolled into one. But I still have a 14.5" BCM/Noveske LW middy for tactical work. It fills that role much more efficiently.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by glocktogo View Post
    I think you dismiss the durability requirements of heavy competition users. Many competitive shooters will run 400 rounds in a single practice session. If a consumable part had to be replaced after every practice session, it better not cost more than $5-$10.
    I think that even if it was quite expensive, there are many who would run this theoretical item for the speed increase. Look at the 1911. How many rounds before a 1911 needs a rebuild? How many in the competition world still run 1911 type pistols?

    Obviously, there will probably never be an item that would increase speed 50% across the board, but it works well as an example. The equivalent of putting your rifle on steroids.

    Quote Originally Posted by glocktogo View Post
    What are consumables on an AR? I think they're fairly few. Obviously action springs, extractor springs and gas rings are on the list. Game shooters probably spend more time and dollars looking for long lasting springs than the tactical types, who will just buy an inexpensive (but quality) Colt spring and be done with it. As you get more rounds downrange, bolt and barrel life come into play. I think any of Noveske's barrels are going to last as long as any other. Game shooters may eventually erode a comp as well. That's not an issue with a flash hider.
    It was just an example, not worth looking too far in to. I used a consumable type part to show how it would appeal to one crowd (given the speed increase) but not another.

    Quote Originally Posted by glocktogo View Post
    Otherwise, I think the most important distinction between game shooters and tactical types is the accuracy requirement. There's a reason a lot of gamers spend money on JP, Noveske and WOA barrels. They're not satisfied with 1-2 MOA capability. While most of their shots are up close speed shots, there are plenty of rounds fired at extended ranges and small targets.

    My 18" Noveske Rogue Hunter CAN serve effectively as a game gun, tactical rifle and hunting rifle all rolled into one. But I still have a 14.5" BCM/Noveske LW middy for tactical work. It fills that role much more efficiently.

  8. #108
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    Several years ago I went to the music store with my son to look at some guitars. On the wall was a Fender Eric Clapton model which has all the goodies installed on the guitar so it is like Erics guitar. There was something wrong with the guitar and I told the store manager to return the guitar to Fender because when I tried to play it I did not sound like Eric. While it should be known what makes a reliable AR ,parts and pieces most likely will not improve the average shooters ability to match the super stars ability...
    Last edited by SteveS; 06-24-12 at 23:07.

  9. #109
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    As I understand it, serious "gamers" beat the hell out of their equipment through the course of use. Definitely not "light duty".

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    Want to talk about this?
    I have a good solution for the lightening cuts. Will post up in a week or so when I get a chance to put it all together in a coherent manner.

    Ive run FEA on it, so it should be a solid way to save some weight.

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