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Thread: M&P slide cracked at 21K rounds.

  1. #141
    ToddG Guest
    Probably not what you want to hear, and I hope they replace it at no charge but if they do, it's outstanding customer service. Someone cracks a slide using an unauthorized tool to install sights (were they factory sights? if not, another strike) ... most companies would point the finger right back at the owner. While I'm sure you know what you're doing, as a company they can't assume that every dude with a "sight tool" can be trusted in the wild.

    Did the company that made the sight tool specifically say it was designed for the M&P? If so, have you contacted them?

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddG View Post
    Probably not what you want to hear, and I hope they replace it at no charge but if they do, it's outstanding customer service. Someone cracks a slide using an unauthorized tool to install sights (were they factory sights? if not, another strike) ... most companies would point the finger right back at the owner. While I'm sure you know what you're doing, as a company they can't assume that every dude with a "sight tool" can be trusted in the wild.

    Did the company that made the sight tool specifically say it was designed for the M&P? If so, have you contacted them?
    The great thing about that "street" is that is goes in two directions. While S&W may be 100% right to disallow a warranty claim for that sort of thing, it probably isn't the best move when they are marketing these pistols to police, as well as competitors.

    Where am I going? Well...

    Let's say that S&W rightfully rejects the claim, and sticks JW777 with a bill for a new slide. That effects only one customer in theory. In reality it effects lots of existing customers, and potential customers.

    Does S&W produce a sight tool to install their sights? If not, who precisely is autorized to do this very low level operation? If only S&W certified armorers are allowed to change sights, without voiding a warranty, people who like to change out their own sights will simply skip to the next pistol that allows them to do this without trying to hold them liable for what looks like a freak occurence, or possibly defective metal.

    So, while I agree that S&W has the latitude to void their warranty for a variety of reasons, I believe that if they do that, even in one case, with what could be a HUGELY succesful pistol, they will cut off their noses to spite their face.

    Word will spread like wildfire that S&W will void your warranty for doing anything to the pistol, even simple things like changing the sights.

    It will be a buzzkill for sure. Many people will use that as a solid basis for which to keep going with their Glock, Sig, etc...

    Right or wrong, it looks like a real loser if S&W decides to deny this warranty claim.

  3. #143
    ToddG Guest
    I've had sights changed by a Smith rep. He uses a vice and a hammer. Why? They've found that the sight pushers on the market aren't designed well for the M&P and crack the slides. Grant says a new Smith-approved sight pusher is on the way, which is great news (and very past due IMHO).

    While I understand what you're saying, the fact is that a very small fraction of one percent of gun owners change their own sights. The rest either buy the gun with the sights they want, don't care one way or the other, or pay a "gunsmith" to swap them. Voiding the warranty for having a non-trained person work on the gun wouldn't make S&W unique.

    Also, you're skipping an important step in your thought process. Smith doesn't have to say "if anyone works on the gun, your warranty is voided." What they could very easily say, however, is that if someone works on the gun and breaks it, Smith isn't going to take responsibility. Heck, technically SIG only authorizes trained armorers to remove the grip panels on Classic Line guns. Does that mean you can't change your grips? No. But if you end up with a stripped thread boss in the frame, you're likely to pay to get it fixed.

    BTW, at least some gun companies recommend against using a sight pusher to remove and install sights anyway. They're intended for adjusting windage and don't always do a good job in a complete swap.

  4. #144
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    I can't see this as being a good situation for S&W.

    A new, and single purpose tool would be nice -- if reasonably priced.

    They should probably also consider strengthening the slides to combat the problem of common sight installation tools breaking them.

    In my opinion, they are facing a loser of a situation on what amounts to a real winner of a pistol design.

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVAN View Post
    I just hope that S&W has greater foresight here.
    So do I.

    What I did SHOULDN'T have busted the slide....it certainly didn't bust the slides on my two 9mms. I'm hardly the most skilled gunsmith in the world, but even a dope like me knows when to quit if something isn't going in right....

    Alienating a long time loyal customer who owns a dozen of your products and who plans to make more purchases in the future over something like this would generally be a bad move....

    All my dealings with S&W have been exceptionally good, so I don't doubt that they'll treat me right here. GotM4 has been kind enough to give me some company contacts that can probably assist me even if the folks doing the repair decide I should pay for it.

  6. #146
    ToddG Guest
    No doubt, they should replace it for free under these circumstances. The tipping point, of course, comes only if they really understand the circumstances. In most gun companies' Customer Service cube farms, the little details tend to get lost in the face of corporate policies.

    Everyone says Smith's CS is outstanding. Hopefully, that trend will continue with this.

  7. #147
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    What i dont understand is why this would crack the slide in the first place. Id think it would dent or bend quit a bit before it would crack. Im interested in knowing if S&W acknowledges there was an issue with the slide and JW777's sight pusher just found it for them.
    Psalm 3:3 But thou, O LORD, art a shield for me; my glory, and the lifter up of mine head.

  8. #148
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    "Id think it would dent or bend quit a bit before it would crack"

    That depends on how hard it is after heat treating the slide and how that heat treat may have been affected by the Melonite application, which I believe is also a heat treating process. If you get steel very hard, it also gets very brittle. There is no free lunch...

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Dobbs View Post
    "Id think it would dent or bend quit a bit before it would crack"

    That depends on how hard it is after heat treating the slide and how that heat treat may have been affected by the Melonite application, which I believe is also a heat treating process. If you get steel very hard, it also gets very brittle. There is no free lunch...
    Agreed! I would like to know if this slide in question is hardened correctly to Smith's specs. It doesnt sound like JW777 used a whole lot of force on this so Im thinking it might be too brittle. Do you think that maybe the stainless steel they use might not be the right choice for the job?
    Psalm 3:3 But thou, O LORD, art a shield for me; my glory, and the lifter up of mine head.

  10. #150
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    slide crack

    It just occurrred to me that using the pusher tool and finding the crack at the same time may be coincidental----perhaps the crack was already there.???

    Williejc

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