RA9T in a 3" barrel?

[Caskalefan]

I am going to get a Springfield XD9 subcompact and was wondering how Winchester's 147 grain RA9T would perform? Will the 3" bbl give enough velocity for expansion?

[ack495]

I am going to get a Springfield XD9 subcompact and was wondering how Winchester's 147 grain RA9T would perform? Will the 3" bbl give enough velocity for expansion?

In my own unscientific testing, denim covered water jugs and a pumpkin. The RA9T expanded every time from a Kahr MK9 3" barrel.

I think that load beside the 147 HST is known for being a great short barrel load for the 9mm.

[Ed L.]

In my own unscientific testing, denim covered water jugs and a pumpkin. The RA9T expanded every time from a Kahr MK9 3" barrel.

I think that load beside the 147 HST is known for being a great short barrel load for the 9mm.

Thanks. This is an important issue given the proliferation of subcompact 9mms that have barrels in the 3" range or slightly longer--guns like the Kahr PM-9, Wather PPS, and now the new S&W M&P shield.

Also, personally I prefer standard velocity ammo for guns of this size because there is often less to hang onto. When you can't get all of your fingers, controlability becomes an issue.

[Beat Trash]

My agency hosted ballistic workshops last November. ATK the first day, Winchester the next.

The Federal 147gr HST was tested out of a 3" Kahr PM9. The difference in a bare gel shot when compared to the 4" M&P9 fs wasn't all that much. About .5" of penetration if I remember correctly. I have copies of the data from the tests at work.

Our new duty load is the Winchester RA9T 147gr load. I carry it in my PM9 as well as my new M&P Shield. I have no desire to use anything else just because it's a 3" bbl.

I wouldn't hesitate one bit to carry the 147gr HST loading either.

[Eliakim]

I chronographed my 9mm Wather PPS (3.2" barrel) before I sold it with some regular Gold Dot +P 124gr 9mm (part # 23617). Five shots averaged 1179 fps, which is about 96% of the published velocity on the Speer website.

Short barrels are not a big deal with 9mm for velocity. What is a big deal with a self defense pistol is reliability. Make sure you run the pistol with enough of your chosen carry load to feel confident it won't jam when you need it for a real situation.

My PPS had a profound problem feeding the Winchester RA9T 147gr load. It certainlty did not meet my expectations for reliability.

[NikokurausuX9]

My agency hosted ballistic workshops last November. ATK the first day, Winchester the next.

The Federal 147gr HST was tested out of a 3" Kahr PM9. The difference in a bare gel shot when compared to the 4" M&P9 fs wasn't all that much. About .5" of penetration if I remember correctly. I have copies of the data from the tests at work.

Our new duty load is the Winchester RA9T 147gr load. I carry it in my PM9 as well as my new M&P Shield. I have no desire to use anything else just because it's a 3" bbl.

I wouldn't hesitate one bit to carry the 147gr HST loading either.

Beat Trash,

Was there any testing of the Federal HST 124gr +P out of the Kahr or short barreled 9mm guns that are similar? I'm trying to decide between it and the 147gr HST for my HK P2000SK.

[Beat Trash]

No.

There was the Speer 124 gr +P Gold Dot included.

What the tests showed with the Kahr PM9 was that in the 9mm, going from a 4" service barrel (M&P fs) to a 3.5" (M&P9c) the difference in the bare gel wasn't much. The ATK ballistics expert who flew down for the test claims one could see that much variance from lot to lot differences. I want to ensure I'm not misunderstood. There really wasn't much difference from 4" to 3.5". When I insisted on including the 3" PM9 to see the effect from a 4" to a 3", there was some difference. But it was about 0.5" additional penetration with all loads tested.

The assumption was that the effect of changing barrel lengths had on the bare gel tests would be about the same effect if all tests were repeated with the 3.5" and 3" guns.

All the tests were not repeated with the other two guns. Gel is expensive. The reps bring the blocks with them for the tests. However many blocks you have to work with is all that you're going to have. So plans are made to utilize the blocks accordingly. It took some convincing on my part to include the M&P9c and the PM9. We issue the M&P9c to investigators, ect. We were in the process of finally permitting officers to carry BUG's. Hence I felt the need to include a 3" gun such as the PM9. An agency isn't going to want to worry about stocking different duty rounds within the same caliber. I felt it was important that the new duty round should perform adequately through a wide span of barrel lengths.

I don't have the data in front of me currently. But the end result was that the 147 gr loading did a bit better in all tests for us than the Speer 124+P Gold dot. The barrel length isn't an issue as far as the ballistics goes.

I feel that a +P round brings some things to play that I'd prefer to do without. Things such as increase wear on the gun and increase recoil, which can increase shot to shot recovery. I voiced these concerns when asked what type of round we were interested in testing.

I carried the 147gr Ranger T loading in my personally owned guns prior to the workshop. I made this decision based on the research posted by Dr. Roberts. What I witnessed in both workshops that I participated in concurred with Dr. Roberts tests. While the 124 +P rounds would work, I prefer the 147 loads.

If your P2000Sk shoots the 147 gr HST well, and you can obtain a steady supply of it, I'd go with that.

[KCabbage]

My PPS had a profound problem feeding the Winchester RA9T 147gr load. It certainlty did not meet my expectations for reliability.

Eliakim, do you remember the manufacturer date of that PPS? How many rounds did you shoot through the pistol before selling it? Were the hollow tips catching between the throat and feed ramp?

I had that same issue so I sold mine as well. However, my PPS was a much earlier one and I really didn't feed it a large number of rounds to break it in. I would be surprised to see if this same malfunction is still happening with the more recent models.

[DocH]

Beat Trash,thanks for all the info you have been providing from the workshops. Being retired now,I doubt I'll ever get the opportunity to attend one.
I've used 147gr. Ranger and HST's in my G19's and G26 for a number of years and have decided to stick with it in the Shield for the time being,at least until I get a chance to chrono them from the Shield.
I know that Doc has stated that things can change when going all the way down to a 3 inch barrel,but the HST's shoot so well in this small pistol I just don't want the headaches of a lot of experimentation. Your reporting of the 3 inch performance of the Rangers has helped to soilidify my decision for now. I'll be doing some informal testing,but your info is appreciated.

[Beat Trash]

DocH,

Glad I could help.

I also picked up a Shield. Very interesting little gun. I was planning on putting an Apex sear in it, but the more I shoot it and dry fire it, the more I'm inclined to leave it as is.

I'll be loading my Shield with RA9T, for what it's worth.