General use AR Advice - (Noob)

[TBomb]

Hey everyone! Well, this is my first post over here, but I have been doing some reading. I am looking to get an AR in the near future and was hoping that you guys could help me spec it out. I will be using the rifle primarily for hunting hogs, coyotes, and other varmints at night/evening, with some hunting during the day. Secondary usage will be as a "SHTF" type of rifle.

I would like to be able to shoot out to ~300 yards (daytime, naturally) but still have a barrel that is short enough to be maneuverable in semi-close quarters.

I would like a flat-top upper so I can mount an optic and I would also like a rail type handguard so that I can mount a light.

I am looking towards LMT but I am not sure where to begin since, as far as I can tell, they do not offer complete rifles. Something like the Smith & Wesson M&P 15T or Noveske N4 Light Carbine would be nice, I think. Also, suggestions for a nice, simple optic that would allow me to shoot at ~300 yards but still allow me to use it for close-up shooting would be great. I'm thinking that an Aimpoint Comp M3 and an Aimpoint 3X Mag might work alright, but I'm not sure.

I'm aware that this will probably be a "compromise" type of rifle, that will neither shoot long distance as well as a dedicated long distance rifle will, nor work in close quarters as well as a dedicated carbine will, but I'm not really interested in having multiple rifles if I can get one that will do both well enough. Thanks in advance for the help!

[rob_s]

If you have the scratch, I would opt for the Noveske N4 Low Profile and a Trijicon TA38 Compact ACOG in a Larue mount. Total should be about $2700 and you'll be all set and ready to go. All you'll need to add is a sling, mags, ammo, and practice.

The above is a compromise, IMHO, in terms of the ballistic performance of the caliber in question at 300 yards. If you really want to up the ante, and don't mind paying more for your ammo, you could opt for the Noveske 16.1" Recon 6.8mm Rifle for $2300 and bump up to the 6.8 caliber. The downside, besides the higher initial cost of the firearm, is the cost and availability of 6.8 loads, but if you're not planning on shooting thousands of rounds a year the 6.8 would probably suit your hunting needs much better.

If cost is an issue, buy the LMT upper, lower, and BCG separately for $1k+/-. You'll still need a handguard of some sort, and the Daniel Defense Omega Rail for another $250. You'll still need an optic and iron sights, and if you're trying to save money I'd go with the Aimpoint C3 in a 2 MOA with an ADM mount for $430and a Larue rear BUIS for $90. Total package about $1800 if you add in a Magpul MIAD pistol grip. $2k even if you opt for a decent weapon light and a foregrip and/or rail covers. You can add the Aimpoint magnifier later after you recover.

[TBomb]

If you have the scratch, I would opt for the Noveske N4 Low Profile and a Trijicon TA38 Compact ACOG in a Larue mount. Total should be about $2700 and you'll be all set and ready to go. All you'll need to add is a sling, mags, ammo, and practice.

The above is a compromise, IMHO, in terms of the ballistic performance of the caliber in question at 300 yards. If you really want to up the ante, and don't mind paying more for your ammo, you could opt for the Noveske 16.1" Recon 6.8mm Rifle for $2300 and bump up to the 6.8 caliber. The downside, besides the higher initial cost of the firearm, is the cost and availability of 6.8 loads, but if you're not planning on shooting thousands of rounds a year the 6.8 would probably suit your hunting needs much better.

If cost is an issue, buy the LMT upper, lower, and BCG separately for $1k+/-. You'll still need a handguard of some sort, and the Daniel Defense Omega Rail for another $250. You'll still need an optic and iron sights, and if you're trying to save money I'd go with the Aimpoint C3 in a 2 MOA with an ADM mount for $430and a Larue rear BUIS for $90. Total package about $1800 if you add in a Magpul MIAD pistol grip. $2k even if you opt for a decent weapon light and a foregrip and/or rail covers. You can add the Aimpoint magnifier later after you recover.

I really appreciate your advice! The one thing I do not want to do is spend $2k and then not be 100% satisfied, when I could have spent a little more and be completely satisfied with the rifle. What barrel length do you think would have better ballistics at 300 yards? I admit that the majority of the shots I will be taking will be within 100-200 yards, so 300 is not an absolute, I would just like the ability to make those shots occasionally. Would a 16" barrel help much or will the extra length just compromise close-range maneuverability? I like the LMT lower but I do not like the iron sight on the LMT upper (Is it part of the gas block? Again, I'm a bit of a noob). I'm sure that it can be removed and replaced with something like on the Noveske Low Profile, with the addition of the flip-up sights. I would prefer the flip-up sights as a back-up in case something happened to my optic (more of a concern in the unlikely but possible "SHTF" situation).

[rob_s]

If you're using the optic correctly, you won't see the front sight, or at least you won't notice it. With that said, if you find that it bothers you, there are all kinds of other options. I personally prefer flip-up sights when using a magnified optic and fixed sights when using a 1x. Hence the suggestion of the 3x Compact ACOG on the N4 and the Aimpoint C3 and fixed rear sight on the LMT.

I was sort of suggesting the LMT as a way to "ease" into things. The N4 costs more, but it only costs more because you get more. You get a $300 rail system, a $300 set of sights, $150 in stock/grip, not to mention the much better barrel. The obvious extras alone total up to $750+ worth of what would be add-ons to the LMT. If you bought the LMT parts and then the accessories to make it look like an N4 you'd easily spend the same amount but not get the N4 barrel, which IMHO is superior to the LMT.

I prefer the 16" barrel though, and right now the N4 comes with a 14.5" with pinned muzzle device to get you to 16" (or you can SBR it). That would be the only compromise with the N4.

There is a whole ton of information on ballistics and how they are affected by barrel lengths, twists, and ammo selection so I'm not going to rehash it all here. Suffice it to say that, IMHO, the 16" carbine with a 1:7 twist and 75 or 77 grain ammo should be effective out to 200 yards. This is all theoretical on my part however as I have not shot anyone, let alone shot them at 200 yards. My killing experience is limited to hogs 100 lbs+/- at 50 yards or less.

Don't get too trapped by looking for the perfect gun for all things, you'll never find it and you'll make yourself nuts trying. The LMT package I suggested at the beginning would suffice for 99.9% of shooters in 99.9% of situations, and do it all for $2k+/- without sacrificing an ounce of quality.

You can always get a Noveske 18" 6.8 upperwith flipup irons ($1500+/-)and a 1-4x variable or fixed 3x optic ($1k-$3k) down the road for those 100-300 yard shots, and use the LMT base gun with Aimpoint for everything to 200.

[TBomb]

If you're using the optic correctly, you won't see the front sight, or at least you won't notice it. With that said, if you find that it bothers you, there are all kinds of other options. I personally prefer flip-up sights when using a magnified optic and fixed sights when using a 1x. Hence the suggestion of the 3x Compact ACOG on the N4 and the Aimpoint C3 and fixed rear sight on the LMT.

I was sort of suggesting the LMT as a way to "ease" into things. The N4 costs more, but it only costs more because you get more. You get a $300 rail system, a $300 set of sights, $150 in stock/grip, not to mention the much better barrel. The obvious extras alone total up to $750+ worth of what would be add-ons to the LMT. If you bought the LMT parts and then the accessories to make it look like an N4 you'd easily spend the same amount but not get the N4 barrel, which IMHO is superior to the LMT.

I prefer the 16" barrel though, and right now the N4 comes with a 14.5" with pinned muzzle device to get you to 16" (or you can SBR it). That would be the only compromise with the N4.

There is a whole ton of information on ballistics and how they are affected by barrel lengths, twists, and ammo selection so I'm not going to rehash it all here. Suffice it to say that, IMHO, the 16" carbine with a 1:7 twist and 75 or 77 grain ammo should be effective out to 200 yards. This is all theoretical on my part however as I have not shot anyone, let alone shot them at 200 yards. My killing experience is limited to hogs 100 lbs+/- at 50 yards or less.

Don't get too trapped by looking for the perfect gun for all things, you'll never find it and you'll make yourself nuts trying. The LMT package I suggested at the beginning would suffice for 99.9% of shooters in 99.9% of situations, and do it all for $2k+/- without sacrificing an ounce of quality.

You can always get a Noveske 18" 6.8 upperwith flipup irons ($1500+/-)and a 1-4x variable or fixed 3x optic ($1k-$3k) down the road for those 100-300 yard shots, and use the LMT base gun with Aimpoint for everything to 200.

Naturally, you are right when you say that by the time I price out an LMT to get me the same features I want from the Noveske, I am within $200 of the Noveske. If the Noveske came with a 16" barrel I would be 100% sold on it. So much for not getting trapped looking for the perfect gun...

[Buck]

Ask and ye shall receive:

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin...since=&status=

[TBomb]

Ask and ye shall receive:

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin...since=&status=

Thanks, but of course I meant for the same price tag . Are these Noveske rifles really worth the extra money? I realize that when you are talking about a rifle that you might, one day, possibly end up using to defend or extend your life, money does not really matter, but we are talking about a sizable chunk of change for a somewhat small chance.

Right now I'm thinking about an LMT lower, LMT 16" upper, shaved front sight, LaRue 10" rail, and a Trijicon TA33R8 with LaRue mount. Should come in around $2200. I'll eventually add a set of Troy flip-up BUIS and a nice Surefire weaponlight and rail covers. With the flip-up sights that puts me at about $2400-2500 with the Trijicon ACOG compared to $2700-3000 for the Noveske with the Trijicon ACOG. For me, right now, I think the $2200 option would be much more manageable and I think it will provide me with a nice rifle that will meet my needs.

[Buck]

One of the large advantages of the recce is the mid-length gas system on the 16 inch barrel, combined with a mono upper... It is a chunk of $$$ but you would be hard pressed to build a better AR...

[Jaeger]

There will be a Recon or SPR upper in my future to compliment my new N4. Noveske builds some fantastic weapons.

[TBomb]

There will be a Recon or SPR upper in my future to compliment my new N4. Noveske builds some fantastic weapons.

Well, I've given it some more thought, and I am going to save my pennies for the Noveske N4. I've done some reading and I don't think the gains from the 14.5" barrel to the 16" barrel will be big enough to make a huge improvement in accuracy or range. The N4 should meet my needs just fine. Thanks to everyone for your advice and your input!