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Thread: Thoughts On The AR Pistol

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    I would rather have a standard pistol on my person and a real AR in the trunk.
    Pat
    I carry a standard pistol on my person as well. However, I'd rather have quick access to my AR as I don't feel that having an actual stock on it is a big enough advantage for to me to SBR it and store it in the trunk. I can shoulder it just fine in pistol form.

    Different strokes I guess...

    Last edited by ilivas; 06-18-12 at 00:42.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilivas View Post
    I carry a standard pistol on my person as well. However, I'd rather have quick access to my AR as I don't feel that having an actual stock on it is a big enough advantage for to me to SBR it and store it in the trunk. I can shoulder it just fine in pistol form.

    Different strokes I guess...

    No offense but I would pull that pic and remove the cheek peace. ATF could argue that is a buttstock. Furthermore take your pistol out and run a course of fire with it and then try it with a conventional AR. I think it will open your eyes a bit. Then there is the poor ballistics a 5.56 has from a 7.5 inch barrel.
    Pat
    Last edited by Alaskapopo; 06-18-12 at 01:04.
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    No offense but I would pull that pic and remove the cheek peace. ATF could argue that is a buttstock. Furthermore take your pistol out and run a course of fire with it and then try it with a conventional AR. I think it will open your eyes a bit. Then there is the poor ballistics a 5.56 has from a 7.5 inch barrel.
    Pat
    I have a letter from the ATF that says it is totally legal to have a stock saddle. I know there are many advantages to a full sized AR, I have several full sized ones. However, I keep this in my floorboard of my car as part of my concealed carry system. It's compact, and stows away quite nicely. I can also grab it in an instant if needed.

    Ballistics of 5.56 is a moot point. I don't plan on shooting anyone at 300 yards with it. That's not really self defense...

    Anyways, it's obviously not for everyone.
    Last edited by ilivas; 06-18-12 at 01:35.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilivas View Post
    I have a letter from the ATF that says it is totally legal to have a stock saddle. I know there are many advantages to a full sized AR, I have several full sized ones. However, I keep this in my floorboard of my car as part of my concealed carry system. It's compact, and stows away quite nicely. I can also grab it in an instant if needed.

    Ballistics of 5.56 is a moot point. I don't plan on shooting anyone at 300 yards with it. That's not really self defense...

    Anyways, it's obviously not for everyone.
    Ballistics at 10 yards from a 7.5 inch 5.56 are less than ideal. I am not talking about long range accuracy but rather terminal ballistics. (ie stopping power)
    Also if the threat is shooting at you from 300 yards it most definately is self defense.

    Pat
    Last edited by Alaskapopo; 06-18-12 at 03:42.
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
    USPSA# A56876 A Class
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    Armorer for AR15, 1911, Glocks and Remington 870 shotguns.

  5. #25
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    I was dead set on getting one as I live in MI were we can not have SBR. I played with the idea and was all set on getting one as my second ar. After much consideration I decided that loosing 4-5" off my barrel was not really worth loosing a buttstock.
    I also wanted to get one so that I could use it with my cpl. But then I remembered that I had a folder AK that was registered as a pistol and even though I could cpl that, I only did about 1-2 times a year.

    So I went with another carbine instead. If I ever do another AR will it be a pistol? maybe maybe not? I guess for now I will just hope that MI will someday allow SBR.

  6. #26
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    I recently did a 2 day shoothouse class. Ran a 16" ar the 1st day, and a 10.5" ar pistol the 2nd. The pistol was definitely handier. While some classmates transitioned to handgun for opening closet doors, the lightweight pistol was easy to handle one-handed. Tucking that buffer tube into the plate made it as easy to shoot as a regular stocked ar.

    I live in mi, so sbrs are not allowed. That ar pistol is my "george zimmerman exhonoration gun" because if that goes down and I have to go to/from detroit (where I work) I want an ar with me (legal with my cpl).

    Some people have them as range toys. Mine is not a range toy.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    Ballistics at 10 yards from a 7.5 inch 5.56 are less than ideal. I am not talking about long range accuracy but rather terminal ballistics. (ie stopping power)
    Also if the threat is shooting at you from 300 yards it most definately is self defense.

    Pat
    I've always said the same thing. 75gr TAP 5.56 gives you a few yards of max fragmentation. But, 50gr TSX from Black Hills will give you something like 70 yards of maximum expansion from a 7.5" AR. From a 10.5" we're looking at closer to 115 yards, where TAP 75gr 5.56 gives you about 40 and TAP 75gr 223 gives you something like half of that.

    Basically, a 10.5" loaded with Black Hills 50gr TSX or 70gr TSX will perform similarly to a 14.5" loaded with 75gr TAP when it comes to terminal ballistics.

    It's amazing what the 50gr Black Hills TSX and 70gr TSX can do. As it stands, TSX gives you the greatest distance from short barreled rifles where it still performs at it's maximum. Also, for your line of work, the Black Hills 50gr TSX is designed for typical LE encounters and has a more robust design than other TSX offerings for better performance against auto glass.

    Personally, the only way I'm running a short barrel is on an SBR'd lower. If I can't have that for whatever reason, I'll run a pinned 14.5" or standard 16" and make due when working in or around vehicles and structures. I can clear a building just fine with a 16" AR, I just prefer a 10.5".
    Last edited by jonconsiglio; 06-18-12 at 17:34.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~ Paul Howe

  8. #28
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    Frankly I see the main reason people are buying SBR's is for a CDI factor (Chicks Dig it). Its for looks. These guns provide a certain advantage in very limited situations for certain people like VIP protection details. For the majority of people however they have far more disadvantages than advantages.
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    Frankly I see the main reason people are buying SBR's is for a CDI factor (Chicks Dig it). Its for looks. These guns provide a certain advantage in very limited situations for certain people like VIP protection details. For the majority of people however they have far more disadvantages than advantages.
    One nice thing about a SBR for those of us who are "vertically challenged" is the barrel has less potential to scrape the ground when left to hang.

    I also thing there is a limited role for AR pistols either as pseudo-SBR for states that don't allow actual SBRs or as a pre-SBR test bed.
    Last edited by halo2304; 06-18-12 at 21:57.
    -VERITAS VINCIT-

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    Frankly I see the main reason people are buying SBR's is for a CDI factor (Chicks Dig it). Its for looks. These guns provide a certain advantage in very limited situations for certain people like VIP protection details. For the majority of people however they have far more disadvantages than advantages.
    Definitely agree with that. The majority of guys I know with SBR's are running them in wide open areas.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~ Paul Howe

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