Active Shooters

**thundergun61** · 05-02-12, 00:37

God forbid this happen to anyone but nevertheless it is something we need to have a plan and prepare for. I understand that asking how anyone would respond to someone shooting a bunch of kids on a playground or someone going on a rampage in a mall is an unfair question. There are so may variables when bullets are flying, the scenarios are endless. Obviously you want to avoid these situations at all cost but what if you are somehow trap in that situation and HAVE to deploy a handgun, carbine or shotgun?

With that being said assuming the worst has happened, has anyone given any general thought to how they would respond AFTER the shooting stops?
-One example would be when LEO's arrive on scene and with all the chaos are unable to determine good guy from bad.
-Another example would be how to address the 911 operator after deploying your weapon (of course the weapon would still be out scanning for more threats)

Another question I have is if you carry an active shooter bag in your car or wherever you go, what do you have in it besides extra mags and tourniquets?

**QuietShootr** · 05-02-12, 09:13

I HATE that term. Yes, I know a word is needed for "person shooting a shit-ton of people who don't need to be shot" but the term "active shooter" smacks of NLP or deliberate framing of the discussion to automatically perceive an 'active shooter' (which many of us here are) as a criminal. It's a piece of socio-linguistic programming that helps with the automatic mental framing of shooters as criminals, especially with law enforcement.

Now, don't bother flaming me with the 'it's just a word' stuff. If you think it's just a word, you don't understand psychological operations at all, or you're in on the joke itself.

All that being said - are you talking about as a LEO or as a private citizen? This has been hashed and rehashed here over and over again. It has basically come down to these points:

1) We have the guys who will charge in because they believe it's their moral duty to do so

2) We have the guys who will evacuate and only shoot in direct defense of themselves or someone in their party

3) We have the cops, who largely think that 1) and to a lesser degree 2) risk being shot by cops if they do anything at all other than run or lay on the ground with their heads covered up

4) then there's an argument between 1) and 2), then 3) comes in with a snarky comment and gets turned on by 1) and 2), then the discussion gets locked, someone in the 1) and 2) group gets either warned, locked, or banned.

Wash, rinse, and repeat every three months or so.

Have I covered everything?

**NCPatrolAR** · 05-02-12, 09:33

Originally Posted by QuietShootr

It's a piece of socio-linguistic programming that helps with the automatic mental framing of shooters as criminals, especially with law enforcement.

I don't know where you come up with this stuff.

**QuietShootr** · 05-02-12, 09:42

Originally Posted by NCPatrolAR

I don't know where you come up with this stuff.

Really? You aren't familiar with the concept of framing a discussion?

A little light reading:

http://www.workingpsychology.com/whatfram.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing...es%29#Politics

Edit again:

For a great example of how framing can change automatic perceptions of an issue, on purpose, look at what's been done to smoking in the last 25 years. Anti-smoking campaigns were uniformly unsuccessful until the anti-smoking activists began to try to affect people's root perceptions of smoking and smokers. Now, a lot of people will nearly recoil in horror at the idea of smoking in an office building, while 30 years ago it wouldn't have been cause for much comment at all. The anti-gunners have figured this out as well, though they're later to the game than the anti-smokers, fortunately, and they have to fight the influence of the internet in disseminating opposing viewpoints, which the anti-smoking crowd didn't have to face for an entire generation of kids.

**Moltke** · 05-02-12, 09:50

Originally Posted by QuietShootr

Have I covered everything?

Yeah mostly that's it.

**C4IGrant** · 05-02-12, 10:02

Originally Posted by thundergun61

God forbid this happen to anyone but nevertheless it is something we need to have a plan and prepare for. I understand that asking how anyone would respond to someone shooting a bunch of kids on a playground or someone going on a rampage in a mall is an unfair question. There are so may variables when bullets are flying, the scenarios are endless. Obviously you want to avoid these situations at all cost but what if you are somehow trap in that situation and HAVE to deploy a handgun, carbine or shotgun?

With that being said assuming the worst has happened, has anyone given any general thought to how they would respond AFTER the shooting stops?
-One example would be when LEO's arrive on scene and with all the chaos are unable to determine good guy from bad.
-Another example would be how to address the 911 operator after deploying your weapon (of course the weapon would still be out scanning for more threats)

Another question I have is if you carry an active shooter bag in your car or wherever you go, what do you have in it besides extra mags and tourniquets?

Assuming that you are a Civy, the answer is for you to get OUT (especially if you are with your family). Even if your family is NOT with you, they are depending on you to come home so again, get out!

Remember that you are not the P O L I C E and it isn't your job to defend other people.

So with that out of the way, you won't be going back to your vehicle to grab your long gun. You will be getting in, calling 911 and driving away from there!

Now for the fantasy part. You are trapped in a building with a terrorist (just like in Die Hard). A pistol is what you have on you. What to do:

1. Call 911 and give an accurate description of yourself and what is going on inside the building.
2. Give them as much intel as possible; number of shooters, where they are, type(s) of weapons, number of injured people, etc.
3. Do a quick (real) estimation of your ability. As in, if all the training you have ever had is basic NRA pistol, SIT STILL!
4. If you have had more training than Rambo, venture out and deal with the bad guys. The minute you kill one of them (and they have a long gun) take that weapon (battlefield pickup)!
5. Remember that the Police are not going to know you from the bad guy and will most likely shoot you! So as soon as the death dealing has been completed, put down all visible weapons, get into a safe place, call 911 and tell them where you are and what you are wearing (again).

The above was written in a "tongue and cheek" sort of way so please do not follow any of the "scenario" advice I have given.

C4

**NCPatrolAR** · 05-02-12, 10:17

Originally Posted by QuietShootr

Really? You aren't familiar with the concept of framing a discussion?

A little light reading:

And none of that applies to the concept of the term "active shooter" being used in order to have law enforcement view firearm owners as criminals. Active shooter is simply used to describe a specific incident that is underway; nothing more, nothing less.

**QuietShootr** · 05-02-12, 10:30

Originally Posted by NCPatrolAR

And none of that applies to the concept of the term "active shooter" being used in order to have law enforcement view firearm owners as criminals. Active shooter is simply used to describe a specific incident that is underway; nothing more, nothing less.

Okay