How many rounds before accuracy suffers?

[orkan]

This is one of the most common questions around these days. It's always asked by rookie shooters that haven't the experience or inclination to find out for themselves.

I fired about 250rnds today before doing this test, so I was a bit punchy. Even so, some conclusions can be drawn.

Here is the first target. I had 761rnds through the rifle since the last time it was cleaned when I started this drill. After the 20rnd drill I did a 30min cleaning job on the barrel.


Then I fired 10rnds to confirm zero and foul it in a bit, then shot another drill.


The accuracy on the 2nd target improved slightly. Not quite as much as you would think after 781rnds though! Those are 1/2" dots. Even on the first target I was holding MOA or close to it. First round clipped about half. Second round clipped a bit more than half. Hardly my best work but I'm not too ashamed to post it.

I'll have to redo this test sometime when I'm having a good day.

[Pappabear]

Most accuracy shooters are crazy about cleaning their guns. How often do you clean yours Orkan? how many rounds do you need to "refoul" if you are changing loads in the middle of a shoot?

I might try once every four shoots or once a weekend.

[rundm]

I used to clean my barrels religiously a few yrs ago, now I wait until the accuracy starts to fall off. On my 308's, it can be quite awhile. For my 300 rums and 7wsm stuff, I clean them every 30-40 rounds. Might be to much but I run a couple of patchs down them to make sure they are ok. The larger ones don't get that many rounds down them anyways. Not like the 308's.

[orkan]

How often do you clean yours Orkan? how many rounds do you need to "refoul" if you are changing loads in the middle of a shoot?

I clean when I need to, or when I feel guilty. For instance, the last time I had this rifle out I noticed I was getting a few more flyers than I would have liked. So I wanted to put it on paper to find out. Obviously the 2nd target shows an improvement, so it needed to be cleaned. I didn't notice accuracy start to suffer until after about 600rnds.

On the other question; I don't change loads, so I couldn't tell you. I work up a load for a rifle, and that is what gets shot out of it. If I change, it's never mid-event. I'll work up a ladder on my own time starting with a clean bore which I'll foul in before firing the ladder.

After cleaning, I'll usually fire at least 10-20 shots to make sure things are settled in. With factory barrels, it will take at least that. With a good match barrel, by the 3rd-5th shot its usually right there.

[AR15barrels]

I fired about 250rnds today before doing this test, so I was a bit punchy.

There's your problem.
You will be more accurate when rested and fresh.
Also, skip the coffee on the way to the range.
250 precisely fired shots will wear you out and it shows on target...

[d90king]

This is one of the most common questions around these days. It's always asked by rookie shooters that haven't the experience or inclination to find out for themselves.

I fired about 250rnds today before doing this test, so I was a bit punchy. Even so, some conclusions can be drawn.

Here is the first target. I had 761rnds through the rifle since the last time it was cleaned when I started this drill. After the 20rnd drill I did a 30min cleaning job on the barrel.


Then I fired 10rnds to confirm zero and foul it in a bit, then shot another drill.


The accuracy on the 2nd target improved slightly. Not quite as much as you would think after 781rnds though! Those are 1/2" dots. Even on the first target I was holding MOA or close to it. First round clipped about half. Second round clipped a bit more than half. Hardly my best work but I'm not too ashamed to post it.

I'll have to redo this test sometime when I'm having a good day.

How did you build up the stamina for shooting 250 rounds of precision 308? I have found somewhere between 80-120 rounds I get spent mentally and end up wasting match ammo...

Interested to learn what steps you took. I'm not bothered by the recoil, its the "brain drain" that kills me. I can shoot steel all day with no problem but when trying to grind it out I get spent.

Thanks for any advice you might have.

[orkan]

How did you build up the stamina for shooting 250 rounds of precision 308?

It takes practice is all. Not many people can sit in one position for that long without having severe muscle fatigue. So, the longer I can shoot, the more it tells me that my NPA is correct.

I'll go into more detail when I've got more time to craft a good response for ya.

[orkan]

I thought it was pretty self explanatory. I was trying to convey that you don't need a sparkly clean bore to have acceptable accuracy.

Firing 750rnds+ of 308 without cleaning and still being able to hold around MOA.

Then I cleaned it, and shot another drill. It tightened up some, but not a lot. I'm sure it was shooting better than I was at that point.

Understand now?

[taliv]

maybe it would be helpful if you just answered the question for the rookie inexperienced shooters: "how many rounds before accuracy suffers?" is it 750 rnds? something more than that? 500 rnds? 100 rnds? 10 rnds?

it seems like on the one hand, you're saying the accuracy got better after you cleaned it, which implies accuracy suffers before 750 rnds.

on the other hand, you're claiming it's still slightly more than MOA and that's 'acceptable', which implies accuracy doesn't suffer until after 750 rnds or maybe never.

So I too remain confused as to the conclusion

also, it's not clear how you're measuring the improvement. just counting the dots where you broke the black, there are 12 hits on each target, so no change. but the misses on the first target do look farther away at a glance. (i haven't measured them)

if you were fatigued, it may have been shooting better than you were, but it's hard for any of us to tell that without some sort of control target from when you're not fatigued to compare

[orkan]

Yeah, I should have made the topic: "How many rounds can you fire between bore cleanings?" Might have helped with the confusion.

Unfatigued target from the same rifle with a couple hundred rounds through the barrel.


Is this really that difficult to understand? I fired 20 shots with a high round count since the last cleaning. It was close to MOA on average (just a bit over) as measured from center of the dots. Then after cleaning, accuracy improved slightly, but it didn't make a huge difference. Indicating exactly as I've stated several times already... that the rifle was shooting better than I was in both instances.

CONCLUSION
1) You don't have to clean your rifle every 50 shots or even every couple hundred shots to maintain MOA accuracy. Granted each rifle will behave differently in regard to how many rounds can be fired while maintaining moa accuracy and precision.

This wasn't for you sinister, nor you taliv. This was for the guys that ask the question; NEW guys. I wouldn't think a huge explanation is required for this.