Advice Wanted:

[Hehuhates]

Problems with the 512 I have seen have been mostly with the battery box. I have also had a mounting screw break. I had problems with both of mine, but i have seen dozens more fail...

You work in returns at Eotech? lol. I find that to be an unbelievable number. dozens? really dozens?.... you have personally seen at least 24 model 512's fail?..............NO you haven't. but I get the idea you like Aimpoint.

[Wiggity]

You work in returns at Eotech? lol. I find that to be an unbelievable number. dozens? really dozens?.... you have personally seen at least 24 model 512's fail?..............NO you haven't. but I get the idea you like Aimpoint.

How do you know he hasn't?

Either stop picking assumptions out of your ass and telling people what they see, or ask him what he does or where he has seen them fail.

[Breadman]

You work in returns at Eotech? lol. I find that to be an unbelievable number. dozens? really dozens?.... you have personally seen at least 24 model 512's fail?..............NO you haven't. but I get the idea you like Aimpoint.

Look Brother,
I'm just a guy from the internet. You can choose to believe what I have to say or not... Doesn't really matter much to me. FWIW I have never seen an exploding battery in an Eotec. The battery problems I have seen/experienced have had to do with the springs in the battery box weakening under recoil and losing connection.
I DO like Eotec. I love the reticle and like that it is an American company. I believe I have given them a fair chance.
I have been a 3gun competitor for the past 7 years. Many of the failures I have seen were in matches or practicing for matches with friends. I have also seen every Eotec in a high round count training class fail. The remainder of my witnessed failures stems around a Govt training facility that keeps 8/10 on hand for training m4s. I have been there on a few occasions when NONE of them were operational.
NOW, you seem to have a good one. I am happy for you. However; just as you don't know me, I also don't know you or how heavily you use your equipment. Delta used Eotecs for many years and loved them (I will point out that most of Delta's operations are of short duration). I also should point out that Eotecs are no longer a part of the sopmod kit.

The question was asked about which optic to put on a "goto" rifle. I felt that I had pertinent information for the OP. I apologize if I have hurt your feelings.

[Hehuhates]

No hurt feelings here. I just find it hard to believe you have seen such a high number of failure with Eotecs, Still do, not calling you a liar but I do think it's an exaggeration. I find it hard to believe also that in serven years of three gun competition you've never seen any problems with even a single Aimpoint. Again I must be lucky because I have. I've seen both brands fail, not often enough to have to remove my pants to count them though.

[Fetep]

I had an Eotech on my last AR, it was super nice, worked great everytime and took a ton of abuse, I was up in the air which to buy between an aimpoint and the Eotech, really liked the 65moa circle! I sold it with the AR, I am now in the same boat you are looking for a new optic, there are soooo many choices now that it is way tougher, so much great stuff on the market. But I am leaning towards the Aimpoint this time, I have used red dots in the past with great success and the aimpoints track record is pretty fabulous!

Either way you'll be happy if you buy the Eotech or aimpoint, try both and buy the one you're most comfortable with!


Fetep

[Scoby]

Don't know anything about the Vortex so I can't speak for that optic.

If it were me, I do a Aimpoint M4 and a EoTech combo. Or better yet, two M4s.

I have two M4s and they are tanks.
I'd put the M4 on the one that would see the most hard use. As in "beater rifle".

[JSantoro]

No hurt feelings here. I just find it hard to believe you have seen such a high number of failure with Eotecs,

Take a moment to consider the following: there exist other people who have a greater level of throughput, in terms of busted optics, that what you experience. I've seen literally hundreds of both brands that were TU; cops, warfighters, everyday citizens, CONUS and OCONUS though I can't go so far as to say "...every clime and place."

Difference is, busted Aimpoints usually busted, as a result of some catastrophic event that was readily visible on the outside of the device (extreme impact, crush, fire, etc.). Somebody DID something to them to break them, something a cut or six above the usual, casual abuse the average warfighter heaps upon such equipment.

EOs have been an even mix of visible damage and nothing more than normal wear marks. They're far more likely to fail internally, without some outside force acting upon them.

Those that use the EOs and love them.....most often belong to an organization where they can walk up to a cage and swap a busted/nonfunctional one for another. The everyday John Doe...can't. Suffice to say that if EO would spend less time adding biohazard reticles to their kit and use better material for their internals, there'd be less reason for the rabid level of hatred EO can generate (which I don't share). One analogy may draw is that Aimpoints are like a Gen3 G17/19 that can almost be ignored when it's not being shot, while EOs are like 1911s and need to be continually maintained by the user to get the most out of them.

One must be willing to swap batteries on a regular basis, occasionally stretch springs so that they contact battery terminals, check for the presence of rubber buffers inside the battery box (that can get stuck to that last battery you just pulled out and tossed in the trash.....)

Given the choice, as posted, I'd go with the 512s (....that's right, I said it, after having typed all that stuff out; stop looking at me like that...!) and perform the following recommended actions: http://www.kyledefoor.com/2009/12/mo...ch-secret.html

[El Cid]

Given your parameters... I'd choose the M4S and NOT buy the Vortex. I'd save that money and put it towards a quality optic later.

That said... if I was going to put an EOTech on my rifle it would not be a 512. It would be one of the newer models (XPS, etc.) with the transverse battery compartment.

I know you said, you were strictly going with your options, but the Aimpoint PRO is the best deal going IMHO for a red dot. At $400 a piece, you can't go wrong. I don't know anyone who "needs" an M4S. In my opinion $700 is WAY too much to spend on any red dot (and this is coming from a guy who had no problem buying a Swarovski for a rifle).

[JB326]

At the LE agency where I am employed, we run 512's on our patrol rifles. We got them in 2005 and since then I would estimate that we've gone through 25-30 (out of 120 +/- rifles) failures, all due to the battery boxes. My particular rifle is on its third battery box.

I wouldn't put a 512 on ANY rifle of mine, but I did just put an XPS on my DD V3 that I recently acquired.

So I guess to answer your question, I'd have to go with the Aimpoint/ Vortex option.

[B Cart]

if EO would spend less time adding biohazard reticles to their kit and use better material for their internals, there'd be less reason for the rabid level of hatred EO can generate

I was under the impression that Eotech did get their act together and used better parts and a more reliable design on their newer models? From what I've heard and read, it seems like the battery compartment issues have been fixed.

As for the 512 model referenced in the OP, I agree with JSantoro that I would go with the two 512s, but perform the modifications he listed. The reason being, you will have consistency between your two rifles, and can still use the more common AA batteries.