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Thread: Clean bore shooting

  1. #11
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    Guy above me nailed it. I don't have the time to play bench rest shooter games. I have shot a lot of rounds through fouled bores with no decrease in accuracy and I know for certain the cold bore shot does vary in POI compared to a fouled bore shot. To argue against it is more than a little strange but hey, maybe I should be investing my time in cleaning every range session and whipping out a bore scope.

  2. #12
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    When you say that competition shooters don't clean their barrels until accuracy drops off. Do you mean that they don't run any patches down the barrel at all?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlelebowski View Post
    Guy above me nailed it. I don't have the time to play bench rest shooter games. I have shot a lot of rounds through fouled bores with no decrease in accuracy and I know for certain the cold bore shot does vary in POI compared to a fouled bore shot. To argue against it is more than a little strange but hey, maybe I should be investing my time in cleaning every range session and whipping out a bore scope.
    You seem a little obsessed with this whole cleaning issue as it relates to precision type rifles so I check back on a few of your posts and found the following quotes from a class you took a few short months ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Littlelebowski View Post
    I myself, had a tough time getting my 5.45 S&W AR on steel at 300 due to the impact area being wet and therefore not providing a dust cloud as to ascertain where my rounds were impacting. With a little help from Chris of F2S Consulting, I got on target and had no more issues. However, given this rifle's previous performance at 300 yards, I'm began to wonder if I'm getting close to wearing out my second 5.45x39mm AR barrel......
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Littlelebowski View Post
    My own personal performance at speed improved significantly but my long distance shooting suffered from me having switched rifles and not having my secondary rifle completely zeroed for 100 meters. .
    I really struggle to understand how a guy who thinks 300yds is long and has to have help to hit steel at that range is so invested in preaching to the world on cleaning schedules.

    While this is the internet and we certainty all have a right to our opinion do you really feel you have any valid real world experience in reference to the OPs question?

    Do you actually own a Precision AR with a magnified optic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt_Gold View Post
    If your cleaning schedule works for you that's just dandy. I know many many competition shooters who don't clean their barrels for the entire NRA rifle season without a drop off in accuracy. At 88 rounds per match plus practice, they go well over your minimum standard without issue.
    Who exactly are these “many, many competition shooters”? What events have they won?

    Do you yourself have any practical experience to relate to the OPs question or are you just repeating the opinions of others?
    Last edited by John_Burns; 05-13-12 at 13:58.

  4. #14
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    Let's not start with silly personal attacks. Thanks



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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt_Gold View Post
    If your cleaning schedule works for you that's just dandy. I know many many competition shooters who don't clean their barrels for the entire NRA rifle season without a drop off in accuracy. At 88 rounds per match plus practice, they go well over your minimum standard without issue.
    These guys don't clean their barrels because they don't have to. They run expensive, very smoothly cut barrels (Hart, Shilen, etc.). The copper accumulation in these barrels is almost nil. A quick look through a bore scope at a high performance barrel bore next to an OE barrel and you'll see the difference is amazing.

    I would imagine that chrome lined bores wouldn't catch much more, but don't know for sure, and never really cared. I do know I was at a known distance range last week with my .mil M4 shooting silhouettes at 500 meters and watching them fall. I don't remember the last time the bore had a good scrubbing, other than a bore snake.

    OE barrels are usually roughly hewn and the rough bore surfaces catch a lot of copper, especially in new barrels.
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  6. #16
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    Hey John, anytime you want to best me at shooting steel at 300 yards with a 4 MOA red dot on top of a 5.45 carbine with about 20k rounds on it (second barrel) shooting soviet surplus ammo from the 80's, let me know. We can put it up on YouTube.

    I learned a lot from this guy. I know he doesn't have your advanced cleaning techniques but he did win the long range competition shoot at Fallujah in 2004 using an SR25.

  7. #17
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    I forgot to add that I did have a precision AR. I prefer bolt guns for precision and I sold that rifle. But, I did own one so I guess it's ok for me to comment here......

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt_Gold View Post
    If your cleaning schedule works for you that's just dandy. I know many many competition shooters who don't clean their barrels for the entire NRA rifle season without a drop off in accuracy. At 88 rounds per match plus practice, they go well over your minimum standard without issue.
    Agreed. It's what I and my team mates did, as well as everyone on the various teams I was on over the years. We never cleaned our weapons until the end of the shooting season...that includes shooting with the USAMU and several trips to Camp Perry.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olaf View Post
    When you say that competition shooters don't clean their barrels until accuracy drops off. Do you mean that they don't run any patches down the barrel at all?
    To answer your question directly, some will and some won't. It depends on their skill level, experience and the individual rifle.

    Every barrel is a law unto itself. I've seen barrels lose accuracy when cleaned really good. I've seen barrels shoot better after they've been cleaned. Most modern barrels seem to shoot well somewhere in between, with just enough fouling to settle them in. I can also tell you ammunition today seems to produce less copper fouling than it did when I first started shooting.

    Your cleaning schedule really must meet your needs, not mine, or anyone else's. If your rifle opens up from 2 MOA to 8 MOA after just a couple of rounds, but you're hitting your target every time, on demand why worry? If you must have 1/4 MOA every shot and can tell when fouling starts opening up your groups, you've already shot the rifle enough to know how many rounds can be fired before it must be cleaned to maintain that level of performance. Clean your rifles in a way that works for you and don't worry what anyone else thinks about it. I knew a guy who cleaned his Glock in the dishwasher. It sounded crazy to me but it worked for him!
    Last edited by MistWolf; 05-13-12 at 23:35.
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  10. #20
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    It should be noted that even the true bench rest disciples do not believe in squeaky clean these days. Traces of copper between relays is wanted. Less fowlers is the key.
    "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."
    Japanese Admiral Yamamoto, 1941




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