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Thread: "Must Do" reliability list

  1. #31
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    ^...that sir is a hella extensive list but a very good one. the only thing i added was magwell which seems to be helping me so far good luck.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiroFijo View Post
    And then don't forget that the colt 1911 that fired 6000 rounds in that mythical test was a very massaged sample. It is unfair to compared a pistol that has every single part inspected and tuned by JMB and some senior gunsmiths to a production pistol.
    I'd be interested to hear more about this. By "mythical" are you saying the gun didn't fire 6k? Also what is this about JMB fine tuning each individual part of the test gun?

    I would like to read about that if you can provide the reference.

    Thanks

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redhat View Post
    I'd be interested to hear more about this. By "mythical" are you saying the gun didn't fire 6k? Also what is this about JMB fine tuning each individual part of the test gun?

    I would like to read about that if you can provide the reference.

    Thanks
    What's ironic is that it's likely the fine tuning performed was simply making sure the pistol was in tolerance, working correctly and maybe a bit of polishing. Nothing extraordinary
    The number of folks on my Full Of Shit list grows everyday

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  4. #34
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    gotta go with mr wolf on this one.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redhat View Post
    I'd be interested to hear more about this. By "mythical" are you saying the gun didn't fire 6k? Also what is this about JMB fine tuning each individual part of the test gun?

    I would like to read about that if you can provide the reference.

    Thanks

    "Browning was determined to prove the superiority of his handgun, so he went to Hartford to personally supervise the production of the gun. There he met Fred Moore, a young Colt employee with whom he worked in close cooperation trying to make sure that each part that was produced for the test guns was simply the best possible. The guns produced were submitted again for evaluation, to the committee. A torture test was conducted, on March 3rd, 1911. The test consisted of having each gun fire 6000 rounds. One hundred shots would be fired and the pistol would be allowed to cool for 5 minutes. After every 1000 rounds, the pistol would be cleaned and oiled. After firing those 6000 rounds, the pistol would be tested with deformed cartridges, some seated too deeply, some not seated enough, etc. The gun would then be rusted in acid or submerged in sand and mud and some more tests would then be conducted.

    Browning's pistols passed the whole test series with flying colors. It was the first firearm to undergo such a test, firing continuously 6000 cartridges"

    http://www.m1911.org/history.htm

    As to "fine tuning", remember that this pistol was not a random production line specimen, but a prototype headed for a very tough test (unheard of until this time), and with a large contract pending.

    The 1911 has always required a bit of manual fitting here and there, even in the good old WWII days where all the parts were supposedly interchangeable. Parts for a pistol were taken from a large bin of parts, the ones that fit best were selected and fitted a bit if needed. And of course the triggers were not what we all like today in the 1911.
    Last edited by TiroFijo; 05-25-12 at 08:08.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiroFijo View Post
    "Browning was determined to prove the superiority of his handgun, so he went to Hartford to personally supervise the production of the gun. There he met Fred Moore, a young Colt employee with whom he worked in close cooperation trying to make sure that each part that was produced for the test guns was simply the best possible. The guns produced were submitted again for evaluation, to the committee. A torture test was conducted, on March 3rd, 1911. The test consisted of having each gun fire 6000 rounds. One hundred shots would be fired and the pistol would be allowed to cool for 5 minutes. After every 1000 rounds, the pistol would be cleaned and oiled. After firing those 6000 rounds, the pistol would be tested with deformed cartridges, some seated too deeply, some not seated enough, etc. The gun would then be rusted in acid or submerged in sand and mud and some more tests would then be conducted.

    Browning's pistols passed the whole test series with flying colors. It was the first firearm to undergo such a test, firing continuously 6000 cartridges"

    http://www.m1911.org/history.htm

    As to "fine tuning", remember that this pistol was not a random production line specimen, but a prototype headed for a very tough test (unheard of until this time), and with a large contract pending.

    The 1911 has always required a bit of manual fitting here and there, even in the good old WWII days where all the parts were supposedly interchangeable. Parts for a pistol were taken from a large bin of parts, the ones that fit best were selected and fitted a bit if needed. And of course the triggers were not what we all like today in the 1911.
    Thanks that was a good read. I would assume the other competitors probably did the same with their designs.

    On a side note, I actually prefer the "GI" trigger pull on a 1911.

  7. #37
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    A well-made 1911 shouldn't have to have any work done to it to make it reliable, but I've had enough jam-o-matics over the years that I now have a few simple things I look for to ensure I've got one that is good to go for the long haul:

    - Make sure all springs are fresh and factory recommended weight. In a new gun this isn't an issue, but if I'm buying used I will probably replace all springs as a matter of procedure.

    - Check extractor for correct tension, hook geometry and minimal clocking. It took me a long time to understand how important this one part is to the 1911's reliability. A class like Larry Vickers' will go into detail as to how to inspect and adjust this part. There is a pretty wide margin for error here, but even then some still come from the factory far enough out of whack that they need some TLC to get them right.

    - Use high-quality magazines with strong springs. For me, the Wilson #47 7-round mags have been totally reliable with every 1911 I have ever tried them in and are all I use for daily carry. Every so many years I replace the springs just to ensure they are at optimal strength.

    - Use quality ammunition. Brands like Federal, Winchester, Speer, PMC, etc. Just about all modern 1911s should come from the factory with a barrel throat that will reliably feed hollowpoints. If it has a G.I. profile, get a decent 'smith to throat it or just stick with FMJ (it's a .45, it'll do the job).

    - Keep all contact surfaces well lubricated. The oil you use doesn't need to be fancy, it just has to be there. If you have a tightly fitted 1911 it's even more crucial to run a lot of oil on the rails and barrel/bushing/slide contact surfaces.

    - Check plunger tube for looseness. If it gets too loose it can shut the gun down. If loose, have it re-staked and add some red Loctite for added strength. Also, use standard width grips that fully support the plunger tube. I've had several come loose over the years and it always seemed to be on guns that had thin grips installed. I love the feel of thin grips, but no more for me, thank you.

    - Check thumb safety for positive engagement/disengagement. This isn't a reliability issue, per se, but it seems like a ceratin percentage of production 1911s I try in gun shops have thumb safeties that are either too mushy with no positive "click" into place, or are way too difficult to operate, requiring extra help from the support hand. Like the extractor, this is a part that requires careful fitting to get right, so it's no wonder they often leave the factory with a less than ideal fit.

    Most of these things are user maintenance issues. The extractor, plunger tube and thumb safety are the ones that the manufacturer can sometimes screw up, as it depends on how careful their employees were in fitting the parts in their effort to move product out the door.

    Hope this helps,
    -Mike

  8. #38
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    To OP: You & ALL of us here are very lucky/blessed to have "VERY Knowledgeable & Highly Respected" members on this board offering TOP NOTCH Advise.

    Haven't read through every post word for word, more skimming, but the flow is the same from what I'm reading, & I agree.

    * Buy Quality; Shot Quality = Win "Buy Once, Cry Once"

    1911 = You do get what you pay for.

    IMHO: Just that my .02, More areas to skimp with the 1911 platform than others. Same applies to the AR platform. They might all look the same, but performance will be not.

    fwiw:
    Buy a "BUILT RIGHT" = No-MIM 1911 platform from a trusted/respected manufacture and stuff it with trusted/reliable magazines: Wilson/Tripp and load those with trusted/reliable 230 grn FMJ(s) & you will be GTG

    Nothing wrong with a SA MilSpec/Loaded/TRP/etc., but send it off to the many respected 1911 smiths here on this board & have it gutted & "fitted" with Quality USA Made "NON-MIM" Bar Stock/Tool Grade Steel

    ^ 1911 w/ proper setup/maintenance = Expiration: 01/01/NEVER

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPDGG View Post
    Nothing wrong with a SA MilSpec/Loaded/TRP/etc., but send it off to the many respected 1911 smiths here on this board & have it gutted & "fitted" with Quality USA Made "NON-MIM" Bar Stock/Tool Grade Steel
    Personally, I think SA is good to go, as is. When the MIM part on your TRP breaks after tens of thousands of rounds you can replace it with bar stock.
    Last edited by MPJMP; 06-06-12 at 10:42.

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