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Thread: New 6.5mm Patriot Combat Cartridge, .223 Based, AR-15 Specific

  1. #1
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    New 6.5mm Patriot Combat Cartridge, .223 Based, AR-15 Specific

    Hello Fellas,

    I believe that the forum members here would be Interested in a new AR-15 wildcat and the forum guys here seem to be quite sharp
    and are not condescending types like on some other forums.

    I would like to Introduce a new .223 based, AR-15 specific, 6.5mm round called the 6.5mm Patriot Combat Cartridge (6.5 PCC).

    I have worked on this cartridge for the better part of two years, and
    have been lucky
    to see it succeed as far as AR-15 .223 based wildcats are concerned.

    I had been frustrated after I had purchased a SSK Industries complete
    upper in 6.5mm called the SSK 6.5 MPC . I was very happy once I had
    finally received the upper from SSK to only become
    extremely disappionted in the actual field results
    when compared to the SSK website listings for
    the MPC cartridge loads in terms of velocity/power
    levels (they were not even close).

    So a few months pass and I wind up talking to a friend in Alabama and he convinces me to develope my own design based on the
    .223 Rem. case. I agreed to do so (I have a Mechanical Enigineering background) and told him he would need to do the
    initial field testing since he had his own private 100 yard range and plenty of wild game
    around like wild hogs and deer.

    Fast forward several months later, sent in all the design blueprints, reamer prints to the reamer manufacturer for the reamer and gages
    another set to the die manufacturer and the last set to the barrel manufacturer.

    Again, fast forward several more month's our two test barrels come
    in, one in 18" length (my fiends Paul's) and mine in 22" length. I sent Paul all the equiptment he needed, projectiles, powders, dies, ballistic
    programs, chronograph etc. The barrels were designed on a stainless steel 416R barrel blank with a three grove stress relieved
    Polygonal bore with a 1:8 twist to handle the long VLD pills.

    Initial testing was better that expected, I had designed the cartridge
    to meet or exceed the power level of the 7.62mm Russian
    round with better accuracy and range than the X39mm.
    Thankfully the 6.5mm PCC surpassed the design objectives
    originally developed for it. Accuracy has been very good to excellent
    with nearly all loads tried so far.

    Here is a quick summary of the various real world field results in both
    testing phase and 6.5mm PCC end user results (velocity, energy)...

    120 grain Speer HotCor Spitzer Softpoint:
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    18" bbl. velocity: 2,441 fps., energy: 1,589 ft/lbs, H335 powder
    22" bbl. velocity: 2,520 fps., energy: 1,693 ft/lbs, H335 powder
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    100 grain Hornady Spitzer Softpoint:
    ----------------------------------------
    18" bbl. velocity: 2,708 fps., energy: 1,629 ft/lbs, H335 powder
    22" bbl. velocity: 2,807 fps., energy: 1,750 ft/lbs, H335 powder
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    85 grain Sierra Varminter Hollowpoint
    -----------------------------------------
    18" bbl. velocity: 3,054 fps., energy: 1,762 ft/lbs, H335 powder
    22" bbl. velocity: 3,138 fps., energy: 1,860 ft/lbs, H335 powder
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    144 grain Lapua Scenar FMJBT (.636 BC/G1 !)
    ---------------------------------------------------
    18" bbl. velocity: 2,102 fps., energy: 1,414 ft/lbs, H335 powder
    22" bbl. velocity: 2,240 fps., energy: 1,605 ft/lbs, H335 powder

    The 18" and longer barrels perform quite well in both velocity and
    accuracy w/ H335 powder, the 16" to 18" barrels perform very
    well with the faster powders like AA1680 etc.

    Below are some pics of Deer (both Bucks & Does) taken with the 6.5mm PCC round.
    The Buck was taken at 217 yards & the Doe at 242 yards. Thanks Paul. Paul used a
    100 grain Pro Hunter, complete pass through in both animals.



    Below is a young Buck taken at 110 yards with a 120 grain Speer HC,complete pass through
    massive exit wound with much blood loss...



    Hope it wasn't to boring for everyone here...
    Last edited by Dr69er; 05-22-12 at 13:17.

  2. #2
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    I think it's awesome seeing guys develop new wildcat cartridges. Looks like you've got a good one.

  3. #3
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    Those numbers are impressive, about on par with 6X45 but with bigger, and some heavier, bullets. Good work.

    From .224 to .264, exactly one full mm. It'd be nice if you could get .223 brass that had not yet been necked, eh?

  4. #4
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    Sound like you put in a lot of work looks like you have a winner.
    "After I shot myself, my training took over and I called my parents..." Texas Grebner

    "Take me with a grain of salt, my sarcasm does not relate well over the internet"

    Jonathan Morehouse

  5. #5
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    Very nice. It did not bore me thank you for posting.

    I like the testing and people trying new things.

  6. #6
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    Thanks guys for all your support.

    I have always loved the AR platform both the AR-15 and AR-10 and I
    have always loved the 1911 platform on the pistol end...so It was
    a natural progress getting to the wildcatting of the .223 Rem. etc.

    I have always been a fan of the 6mm & 6.5mm rifle calibers, so I
    always wanted a low cost reloadable 223 based round that would
    work well in a AR-15 platform...

    I was also working on a 1911 barrel design in 7.62mm x 25mm
    Tokarev caliber, but, someone beat me to it. I'm glad they did,
    cause this wildcatting stuff is getting really expensive...

    I am also working on a 6.8mm version of the PCC round for
    all of the fans of the 6.8mm caliber...according to my ballistic
    computer programs in should be in the ballpark ballistic wise
    of a 16" barreled 6.8mm SPC round.

    I have a lot of stuff on plate with family, work and everything so, it
    slows me down when I want to do some work with the wildcats...

    I will post all the latest developements with the 6.5 PCC round as
    they happen.

    Again, thanks to all of you here for your support.

    Below is a pic. of the 6.5 PCC rounds in a H&K (Germany)
    416 AR-15 Maritime Steel Magazine, they are the best made
    longest COL mags. I have seen yet.




    Below is a pic. of a 6.8mm PCC w/ a 110 gr. Pro Hunter
    Last edited by Dr69er; 05-22-12 at 13:13.

  7. #7
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    Here is some more 6.5mm PCC End User field testing results:

    Update 6/8/2012 : 6.5mm PCC End User Field Results with 18" AR-15 Bbl.,Than You Nick !

    85 gr. Sierra TNT HP--------H335 Powder-------Velocity: 3,054 fps.----Energy: 1,761 ft/lbs.
    95 gr. Hornady V-Max.------H322 Powder------Velocity: 2,687 fps.----Energy: 1,524 ft/lbs.
    100 gr. Hornady SSP--------H335 Powder-------Velocity: 2,708 fps.----Energy: 1,629 ft/lbs.
    100 gr. Hornady A-Max.----H322 Powder-------Velocity: 2,617 fps.----Energy: 1,522 ft/lbs.
    100 gr. Nosler Partition----H322 Powder-------Velocity: 2,607 fps.----Energy: 1,510 ft/lbs.
    100 gr. Nosler B/T-----------H322 Powder-------Velocity: 2,623 fps.----Energy: 1,529 ft/lbs.
    100 gr. Berger HPBT--------H322 Powder-------Velocity: 2,608 fps----Energy: 1,511 ft/lbs.
    120 gr. Speer HotCor SP---H335 Powder------Velocity: 2,441/2,386--Energy: 1,589 ft/lbs
    120 gr. Prvi Partizan--------H322 Powder-------Velocity: 2,385 fps-----Energy: 1,517 ft/lbs.
    *******FMJBT***This is the same load used in the Wolff Gold 6.5 Grendel(R) Match Ammo.
    120 gr. Hornady A-Max----H322 Powder--------Velocity: 2,360 fps.---Energy: 1,485 ft/lbs.
    144 gr. Lapua FMJBT-------H322 Powder--------Velocity: 2,131 fps.----Energy: 1,453 ft/lbs.

    Nick used the following specs: COL @ 2.285", Case Trim Length: 1.645", Case H20 Capacity: 32 grs.
    PRI .223/5.56 Magazines, Winchester/IMI 223 brass & LC-10 223 Brass, SR Magnum Primers.

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    Man that's awesome! Do you plan to do any testing with shorter barrel lengths? I'm not knocking it one bit, as a fellow ME I'm thoroughly impressed with the work. But it seems in the naming of Patriot Combat Cartridge it musters up images of SBR's with high performance, high BC etc...for the modern battlefield it seams the trending is toward shorter rifles for urban combat..

    Simply outstanding results though! I'm really impressed! Seems like you have thought this round out very well..I look forward to more updates

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by !Nvasi0n View Post
    Man that's awesome! Do you plan to do any testing with shorter barrel lengths? I'm not knocking it one bit, as a fellow ME I'm thoroughly impressed with the work. But it seems in the naming of Patriot Combat Cartridge it musters up images of SBR's with high performance, high BC etc...for the modern battlefield it seams the trending is toward shorter rifles for urban combat..

    Simply outstanding results though! I'm really impressed! Seems like you have thought this round out very well..I look forward to more updates

    We have done some limited testing w/ 16" barrel version, and we
    have had similar numbers to the 18" barrel version using slightly
    faster powders...

    We will be getting more Independent 6.5 PCC end user on-line
    very soon, one of which has a 16" barrel...

    So far the the end user results has been very good in both accuracy
    and velocity...

    Thanks for your Interest in the 6.5mm PCC round...We will try to
    keep everyone updated...

  10. #10
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    That's good to know! I'll keep checking in for updates

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