Hearing damage

[ruchik]

I have a question regarding hearing damage. If, for example, someone finds himself in a protracted firefight without hearing protection, and does not see any more action for several weeks, do the ears begin repairing themselves, or is that hearing damage pretty much permanent? I'm not planning on or have ever been in such a situation, but I am curious as to what the limits of hearing damage and repair are from those more experienced than I.

[Kokopelli]

I have a question regarding hearing damage. If, for example, someone finds himself in a protracted firefight without hearing protection, and does not see any more action for several weeks, do the ears begin repairing themselves, or is that hearing damage pretty much permanent? I'm not planning on or have ever been in such a situation, but I am curious as to what the limits of hearing damage and repair are from those more experienced than I.

No repair.. Eventually the damage will show up.. IIRC.. Ron

[Hmac]

With loud noise exposure, you're cumulatively killing off hair cells in the cochlea and sclerosing the boney components of the inner ear. The damage is permanent. It may not appreciably affect your hearing until middle age, but you will eventually pay the price.

[ruchik]

Damn, that's unfortunate. So then what do soldiers such as infantry get around it? I can't see that wearing ear pro 24/7 would be practical. So do they just slap them on as soon as the shooting starts?

[panzerr]

With loud noise exposure, you're cumulatively killing off hair cells in the cochlea and sclerosing the boney components of the inner ear. The damage is permanent. It may not appreciably affect your hearing until middle age, but you will eventually pay the price.

This.

And it will hurt like a mofo until it hears (two or three weeks). It's the kind of hurt that you can't do much about other than doping up. If you're super lucky, you'll get a case of tinitis. That is super fun.

Note that your ear does have a limited ability to protect itself via two small muscles which each put tension on an ossicle. These are Tensor Tymapni (on the malleous) and Tensor Stapedius (on the stapedius). It's not clear how of if these muscles are involved in the phenomenon called auditory exclusion but I would bet they are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stapedius_muscle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor_tympani_muscle

[QuietShootr]

Damn, that's unfortunate. So then what do soldiers such as infantry get around it? I can't see that wearing ear pro 24/7 would be practical. So do they just slap them on as soon as the shooting starts?

There is good, unobtrusive earpro available. I wouldn't walk around without a set of SureFire EP3s in place - they don't noticeably impair my hearing but they sure take the pain out of big kabooms.

[ruchik]

I use those exact same plugs, but walking around with them in 24/7 in preparation for a possible self-defense or home intrusion situation is impractical. Seems like there's really no way around just taking the hearing damage if a situation goes south before you have time to prepare. Still, I suppose hearing damage is preferable to dying.

[Ned Christiansen]

I don't really know the physiological mechanics of this but every time I meet a guy who's been exposed to a ton of gunfire with no hearing protection (e.g., veterans), I either poll them as to their hearing or just kinda unobtrusively test them ("Hey, Joe", at just above a whisper or something like that). It is surprising how many of them don't feel their hearing is so bad-- and often I find it to be true. Talking here about things like being present for M249's and M4's rockin' inside a house in Falujah, for example. I've been lucky enough even to do this with a WWII vet or two..... one who jumped on June 6th, 1944. He was far from stone deaf, well into his 80's.

I've always been scrupulous about hearing protection while shooting, even since childhood, but some of it back then was not what I would now consider adequate. And then there are always the shots that go off when you don't expect them, at a match, at a range, at a class. And then there's that period, a stage you might call it, of concert-going and clubbing where more volume seems to equal more enjoyment.

So, now? I'm far from stone deaf, BUT..... tinitis. Big time, right side. I think it is the result of a few incidents more than a cumulative thing. Certain tones of voice are hard to hear-- a waitress in a noisy restaurant, a child in a car with the windows down.

Was talking to an older, long-time shooter the other day about it. He told me that he could pin a date and time on his tinitis-- one single event, firing a .350 Remington Magnum under a bridge. He set the rifle down, put his hands to his ears, and they've been ringing ever since. He told me about an actor who got it on the set when an explosion went off too soon and too close-- and it nearly drove him to suicide.

In my circle we have stories of guys that as the result of a single shooting incident, lost hearing to the point where they could no longer be the police. I don't know that we have these stories first hand, or that we have data per se, but I find it believable.

Conclusion-- maybe as in so many other things, different people are affected in different ways by noise. But if this is so, the only way to find out is, if you have hearing loss and tinitis, you weren't one of the people who is affected less. Makes more sense to me to take preventative measures.

Nothing worse than making your first impression on a cute waitress by saying, "Sorry, what was that? Pardon me? Could you repeat that? Soup of the day is heave retchable? That doesn't sound so good, don't you have any beef vegatable?"

[Hmac]

I use those exact same plugs, but walking around with them in 24/7 in preparation for a possible self-defense or home intrusion situation is impractical. Seems like there's really no way around just taking the hearing damage if a situation goes south before you have time to prepare. Still, I suppose hearing damage is preferable to dying.

As I said, the hearing damage is cumulative. I see guys here on M4C every now and then talking about the importance of keeping hearing protection with their bedside home defense arsenal or the importance of running suppressors on their home defense weapons to protect their hearing. If one believes that they'll have to fire so many self-defense rounds in their lifetime that their hearing is in jeopardy then they should either find another job, find a different neighborhood, or seriously examine their level of paranoia.

[QuietShootr]

I don't really know the physiological mechanics of this but every time I meet a guy who's been exposed to a ton of gunfire with no hearing protection (e.g., veterans), I either poll them as to their hearing or just kinda unobtrusively test them ("Hey, Joe", at just above a whisper or something like that). It is surprising how many of them don't feel their hearing is so bad-- and often I find it to be true. Talking here about things like being present for M249's and M4's rockin' inside a house in Falujah, for example. I've been lucky enough even to do this with a WWII vet or two..... one who jumped on June 6th, 1944. He was far from stone deaf, well into his 80's.

I've always been scrupulous about hearing protection while shooting, even since childhood, but some of it back then was not what I would now consider adequate. And then there are always the shots that go off when you don't expect them, at a match, at a range, at a class. And then there's that period, a stage you might call it, of concert-going and clubbing where more volume seems to equal more enjoyment.

So, now? I'm far from stone deaf, BUT..... tinitis. Big time, right side. I think it is the result of a few incidents more than a cumulative thing. Certain tones of voice are hard to hear-- a waitress in a noisy restaurant, a child in a car with the windows down.

Was talking to an older, long-time shooter the other day about it. He told me that he could pin a date and time on his tinitis-- one single event, firing a .350 Remington Magnum under a bridge. He set the rifle down, put his hands to his ears, and they've been ringing ever since. He told me about an actor who got it on the set when an explosion went off too soon and too close-- and it nearly drove him to suicide.

In my circle we have stories of guys that as the result of a single shooting incident, lost hearing to the point where they could no longer be the police. I don't know that we have these stories first hand, or that we have data per se, but I find it believable.

Conclusion-- maybe as in so many other things, different people are affected in different ways by noise. But if this is so, the only way to find out is, if you have hearing loss and tinitis, you weren't one of the people who is affected less. Makes more sense to me to take preventative measures.

Nothing worse than making your first impression on a cute waitress by saying, "Sorry, what was that? Pardon me? Could you repeat that? Soup of the day is heave retchable? That doesn't sound so good, don't you have any beef vegatable?"

Same with me, only mine was firing a 6mmBR with a really terrible muzzle brake under a metal roof last summer. Right plug slipped just enough, and it felt like I was stabbed in the ear with an icepick. Terrible tinnitus since then, nonstop. My hearing still tests OK but I will never again sleep without a fan on.

It's amazing that that's what did it after all the other silly shit I've been around. I was once in a 14'x16' or so basement in the old Doughboy City MOUT site in Berlin (all concrete, walls, ceiling, floor) when some asshole tossed an artillery simulator down the stairs. I was damn near knocked out and couldn't hear ANYTHING below a yell for about four days. That's one - and the other was being within 100 feet or so of an M1 firing a sabot round, no hearing protection. Neither one of those resulted in tinnitus, but that ****ing 6mm wrecked my ear.