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Thread: The Fighting Carbine, AK Edition

  1. #31
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    This thread should be 'Sticked' so this great info isn't lost.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

  2. #32
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    Many of you mentioned the topic of after-market grips. Namely, these posts:

    Quote Originally Posted by Spooky130 View Post
    A question you did not address - grips. What are your thoughts on the current US Palm grips available for the AK? I don't have terribly large hands so the "small" standard grips work fairly well for me. I have played with a modern Izmash shotgun grip and it worked well and filled up my hand. I've also seen some MagPul grips adapted over to the AK which seemed to change the grip geometry on the rifle.
    Quote Originally Posted by RD62
    Just my .02 but I think the US Palm grip is fantastic and have used them on 3 AK's. Not a required upgrade for a fighting carbine but a nice one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moose-Knuckle
    With the addition of the US Palm/TD battle grip and a enhanced safety lever, the ergonomics of the Kalashnikov platform vastly improves. I run them on all my AKs.
    and I didn't mention them in the OP for several reasons.

    Firstly, not everyone has the same hand size nor the same shooting style as everyone else. Grips vastly fall into the, 'personal preference category' (with some exception). IE: Some dude with gorilla hands who uses a low hold is certainly going to have a different preference in grips than someone with small hands who utilizes a high hold.

    It is also for this reason why I find conversions on, 'the best grip' for an AR and XYZ rifle completely laughable at best and stupid at worst. Yes, preferences do exist for different reasons beyond, 'well it works for me' (the mantra of the lazy). Altogether too often a shooter simply doesn't know why they prefer what they prefer nor have the language to convey it.

    I have a high hold and relatively small hands. Ergo, the normal grip on an AK works well for me and I'm very specific about AR grips (nothing with a back strap and nothing with grooves) whereas someone with larger hands can pull off a back strap grip and a high hold on an AR.

    So no, I cannot give any definites in regards to pistol grips on AK's. If the US Palm/TD grip for the AK were as sleek as it is on an AR I would buy them for all of my guns. Since they are larger, I won't, and also stick (mostly) to standard AK pistol grips.

    Clear as mud? (I doubt it, haha) Yeah, subjective stuff can be a PITA.
    Dave Merrill
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  3. #33
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    I got asked on another forum about why 5.56 AK's are not as reliable so I thought I'd copy-pasta it here:


    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_M
    5.56 AKs have never been quite as reliable as their combloc caliber cousins for some reason,
    The reason is two-fold: Firstly, the taper of the 5.56 round isn't really conducive to the AK action design--it's far easier to misfeed a 5.56 than a 7.62 or a 5.45. Check out the tapers of each round:


    Both the 7.62 and 5.45 rounds have a short (and when compared to the 5.56), somewhat drastic taper. This short taper works well with the AK action design. Yes, there are some things that can be done to make 5.56 AK's more reliable (such as changing/modifying feed ramps and a 6 o'clock chamfer on the chamber face) but overall I agree that they are less reliable than their 5.45 and 7.62 brethren.

    Secondly, while 5.56 AK-series rifles have been made by many nations (Russia, Yugoslavia, China (several variants in this nation alone), Bulgaria, Finland, and Israel (the last two only count if you consider the Valmet and Galil part of the, 'AK-series' (which I largely do)) there has never been any sort of set standard in regards to build nor [more importantly] magazines.

    Given enough time and patience I'm confident I can make one 5.56 AK mag from one country work in another (and then no one else's, including the original in some cases). However, cutting and welding and XY and Z per each mag doesn't exactly inspire confidence in a system.

    This has resulted in all sorts of voodoo. Some of this voodoo is, 'you can use a 5.45 mag with a Robarms 5.56 follower in XYZ AK but only if you load up to ZYX rounds' and, 'if you have nation #1 rifle and nation #2 mags, they work awesome if you remove the feedlips then weld them Xmm's highter and...' I think you get the point. This is a problem that is virtually nonexistent with 7.62 and 5.45 AK's and for obvious reasons tells you why they are held in higher regard.


    and I am not sure if the barrel twist is really ideal for some of the uber 75gangsta 5.56 rounds out there now, and on an AK you can't just swap out a barrel if you feel like it.
    Once again, the answer is, 'well is depends....' (what it depends on is the nation, factory, and time the 5.56 AK was built). Chinese AK's are notoriously bad in this regard. Depending on the model and when, twist rates can vary from 1/12 to 1/9. One's best bet is a genuine Russian AK-102 (close to a 1/7 twist) or Bulgarian copy (the same(ish)). You'll never really know unless you clock it yourself.
    and this tidbit about triggers:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_M
    Surprised there was nothing on the G2 trigger, which seems to be a must have.
    Thanks for the reminder on that one actually. Many AK's (especially early/mid Century Arms International imports) came equipped with absolutely ass triggers. No, not just a gritty trigger but one which would beat your trigger finger to hell through even through a single magazine. The latter is referred to as, 'trigger slap'.

    So why did so-called, 'trigger slap' exist with CAI imports and not others (such as many other Chicomm Imports)? The answer is a combination of 922R (look it up if you don't know) and CAI's absolute total disregard and lack of understanding of both the consumer market and the AK-type rifle.

    I don't want to get too far into 922r [at all, in fact] but one of the ways CAI got around it was producing US-made AK FCG's (Fire Control Groups) to account for US-parts. Unfortunately, all that CAI did was copy and manufacture full-auto FCG parts (US made) and stick them in semi-auto AK rifles. What resulted was semi-auto AK-type rifles with terrible terrible trigger slap.

    Why?

    Because an extended-tail FA disconnector, on a semi-only AK causes the trigger to, 'slap' back on the trigger finger. Now the curious thing is that this doesn't happen with a select-fire AK on a semi-automatic setting. What CAI was doing, was effectively putting FA US-made disconnectors on semi-auto AK's without hammer retarders and other parts needed to make select-fire guns.

    Trigger slap was the result.

    At the time, the quickest fix was to take the following disconnector (the top) and using a dremel tool, to turn it to the other picture (the bottom).


    This eliminates the trigger slap and greatly improves trigger pull.

    The Gordon Technologies trigger (G2 trigger) does this without the use of a dremel nor by violating 922r. This was the first US made trigger that didn't cost a ton which met those requirements, hence, the so-called, 'G2 trigger; is popular.

    In regards to US triggers, I prefer the US Arsenal trigger with the, 'Tapco G2' as a secondary. The Red Star Arms adjustable trigger remains to be popular, despite requiring loc-tite to stay together.
    More info as it comes along.
    Dave Merrill
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  4. #34
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    I would go with a Sig 556, all the bugs are out now they are GTG.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by pat701 View Post
    I would go with a Sig 556, all the bugs are out now they are GTG.
    What does that have to do with AKs?

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_M View Post
    I got asked on another forum about why 5.56 AK's are not as reliable so I thought I'd copy-pasta it here:
    Polish Army experience shows that 5.56 wz.96 (wz. 96/06) Beryl rifle (http://en.fabrykabroni.pl/?d=111) and Mini Beryl carbine (http://en.fabrykabroni.pl/?d=112) are as reliable as AKM and AKMS rifles still in use by Polish Army. It took some extensive work and testing to go from wz. 88 Tantal (5.45) to have reliably working 5.56 rifle (yes, extraction was most tricky part), but FB Radom managed to do it. Long years of use in Iraq and A-stan does not showed any functional problems with Beryl. Most request were from configuration flexibility point of view, that led to improvements like collapsible bustock, aluminium railed handguard, new pistol grip, enlarged magazine release, optic rails, etc (all present in wz. 96/06 configuration).

    Beryl 5.56 polymer mags are, of course, designed to use in Beryl, but can be also used in 5.56 Saiga (if feed ramp is installed, as Beryl mags do not have feed ramps).

    Point is that good, reliable 5.56 AK can be done. It just need good design and quality of manufacture. And is more expensive than 7.62/5.45 variants.
    Last edited by montrala; 06-06-12 at 08:44.
    Montrala

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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by montrala View Post
    Point is that good, reliable 5.56 AK can be done. It just need good design and quality of manufacture. And is more expensive than 7.62/5.45 variants.
    I was just explaining why generally they are less reliable, not saying all of them are.
    Last edited by Dave_M; 06-06-12 at 09:10.
    Dave Merrill
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_M View Post
    I was just explaining why generally they are less reliable, not saying all of them are.
    OK then. I understood, that you were telling why good 5.56 AK is not possible. Must be my poor English I'm sorry.
    Last edited by montrala; 06-06-12 at 09:31.
    Montrala

    I'm sponsored competition shooter representing Heckler&Koch, Kahles, Hornady and Typhoon Defence brands in Poland, so I can be biased

    http://montrala.blogspot.com

  9. #39
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    Thanks for the clarification montrala and for posting those links. Both are good reads. There is a fairly large Polish contingent where I operate from and have seen this exact set up on the 5.56 variants, with EOTechs as the primary RDS.

    Quote Originally Posted by montrala View Post
    Polish Army experience shows that 5.56 wz.96 (wz. 96/06) Beryl rifle (http://en.fabrykabroni.pl/?d=111) and Mini Beryl carbine (http://en.fabrykabroni.pl/?d=112) are as reliable as AKM and AKMS rifles still in use by Polish Army. It took some extensive work and testing to go from wz. 88 Tantal (5.45) to have reliably working 5.56 rifle (yes, extraction was most tricky part), but FB Radom managed to do it. Long years of use in Iraq and A-stan does not showed any functional problems with Beryl. Most request were from configuration flexibility point of view, that led to improvements like collapsible bustock, aluminium railed handguard, new pistol grip, enlarged magazine release, optic rails, etc (all present in wz. 96/06 configuration).

    Beryl 5.56 polymer mags are, of course, designed to use in Beryl, but can be also used in 5.56 Saiga (if feed ramp is installed, as Beryl mags do not have feed ramps).

    Point is that good, reliable 5.56 AK can be done. It just need good design and quality of manufacture. And is more expensive than 7.62/5.45 variants.
    Last edited by RogerinTPA; 06-06-12 at 10:20. Reason: Add info.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

  10. #40
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    Wow, that was an informative post. I am bookmarking this page to read up on this again later. Thanks for writing all of this for us.

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