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Thread: Bolt life question.

  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by skullworks View Post
    Since Arctic1 has some personal experience of the HK in not only Nordic, but Norwegian climate I guess he was wondering what the rumour mill had cooked up this time.
    Same rumour as before. Poor SOB came from deep freezing outdoors to hot indoors with his rifle. Let it accumulate moisture everywhere. Then he went outdoors again and let rifle freeze on him. Then he blamed the rifle.

    You do not do that with selfloader in arctic condition. Not with HK416, not with M16, not with M4, not with G3. Not even with AK (while AK is little more forgiving and you can kick charging handle). At least this is what someone who spent some time in arctic conditions told me.
    Last edited by montrala; 08-20-12 at 08:42.
    Montrala

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  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangertree View Post
    Stag Arms parts are the equal in real quality to say, Colt or BCM, and better than most.
    I'll politely disagree. Stag is a perfectly suitable rifle for a budget conscious enthusiast, but they're not a mil-spec machine, nor would I be comfortable staking my life or the lives of my officers on one, at least not to the extent I do my DD and my Colt.

    I don't know of anyone who has ever had to fire a weapon in anger, LE or Armed Forces alike, who carries a Stag...
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  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangertree View Post
    All interesting in theory, but when a rifle has to work in 'adverse', the carbine length will go bang for longer with a wider variety of ammo. As one national armorer employee remarked on the request, 'but carbine length works!'.
    No it won't. As illustrated during the development of Mk 262 ammo. The carbine chamber pressures became excessive and caused extraction issues during extended firing cycles.

    A longer gas system with a lower port pressure will allow more time for the chamber pressures to lower before extraction.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  4. #134
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    The issues we have seen in the cold are a result of poor/improper cold weather maintenance, and not particular to that weapon system.

    And it is not a bolt issue.

    There have been a few incidents where internals have frozen; safety, charging handle etc, rendering the weapon inoperable, though with an easy enough fix.
    However, if proper cold weather maintenance is enforced by leaders, these problems do not occur; use lube, remove water/moisture during field cleaning, use lube, remove snow with the issued snow removing brush (for clothes, but it works), use lube, avoid moving the weapon from cold, to hot, to cold again if possible, keep weapons covered when not in use to protect from elements, use lube....oh, and use lube.

    It was most prominent with mechanized infantry who were continously dismounting, mounting and dismounting their IFV's.

    It also happens with MG-3's, M2 Brownings, Glocks etc etc.....I actually had my pistol freeze in my holster once, could not get it out until the holster thawed. It was a Safariland 6004.

    I have seen the picture in post #44 of the HK416 feedback thread, as well as the post by the norwegian soldier over on TOS. That single post led to an article on the Firearms blog, stating the the norwegians had issues with their guns in the cold weather. Great reporting and source verification/use. Especially seeeing as the post was made only a few months after general issue started. My unit was the first to get it, May 2008. The rest started to have it issued in August 2008, and service-wide fielding was complete sometime in 2010 I think.

    It is safe to say that many of the "issues" arriving are not due to weapon design or quality, but a lack of institutional knowledge on the platform. It's only been in service for 4 years, replacing a weapon that had been in service for 40 years. I imagine that the same stuff would appear if US forces switched to an AK or another type of platform they were unfamiliar with.
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  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by opdsgt View Post
    I'll politely disagree. Stag is a perfectly suitable rifle for a budget conscious enthusiast, but they're not a mil-spec machine, nor would I be comfortable staking my life or the lives of my officers on one, at least not to the extent I do my DD and my Colt.

    I don't know of anyone who has ever had to fire a weapon in anger, LE or Armed Forces alike, who carries a Stag
    ...
    Well, again, I disagree, because I do know people who have used Stag Arms rifles in combat.

    In Canada anyway, Stag Arms Lefties are in use by high-speed low-drag CF elements, and after hard service in Afghanistan were written up and approved for further purchase. Lefty assaulters with 12.5" supressed guns, love not being gassed out of a fight after one mag (not my words). They have not reported any problems that I know of.

    Are you basing this opinion you hold, that Stag Arms are inferior (for unmentioned reasons) to a similarly configured Colt based on personal experience with Stag Arms?

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    No it won't. As illustrated during the development of Mk 262 ammo. The carbine chamber pressures became excessive and caused extraction issues during extended firing cycles.

    A longer gas system with a lower port pressure will allow more time for the chamber pressures to lower before extraction.
    I have not experienced extraction issues on well running carbines with Mk262.

    I was referring to filth & corruption from hard use and firing cycles as adverse, rather than extraction. The lower pressure is the point I was making (when it HAS to work).

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangertree View Post
    I have not experienced extraction issues on well running carbines with Mk262.

    I was referring to filth & corruption from hard use and firing cycles as adverse, rather than extraction. The lower pressure is the point I was making (when it HAS to work).
    So, by your logic, the rifle gas system would be the least reliable because it has the lowest port pressure and the least amount of excess gas. Yet, it is the most reliable...

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    Last edited by BufordTJustice; 08-20-12 at 21:47.
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  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangertree View Post
    Well, again, I disagree, because I do know people who have used Stag Arms rifles in combat.

    In Canada anyway, Stag Arms Lefties are in use by high-speed low-drag CF elements, and after hard service in Afghanistan were written up and approved for further purchase. Lefty assaulters with 12.5" supressed guns, love not being gassed out of a fight after one mag (not my words). They have not reported any problems that I know of.

    Are you basing this opinion you hold, that Stag Arms are inferior (for unmentioned reasons) to a similarly configured Colt based on personal experience with Stag Arms?
    I know a US SF guy who used a Bushmaster in combat......before he knew better. Plenty of the SWAT guys in my agency use Bushmaster. They also have constant issues and have to resort to using the d-ring to maintain enough extractor tension.

    This does not mean I will be running out and buying a bushmaster any time soon.

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Epic 4G Touch
    "That thing looks about as enjoyable as a bowl of exploding dicks." - Magic_Salad0892

    "The body cannot go where the mind has not already been."

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
    I know a US SF guy who used a Bushmaster in combat......before he knew better. Plenty of the SWAT guys in my agency use Bushmaster. They also have constant issues and have to resort to using the d-ring to maintain enough extractor tension.

    This does not mean I will be running out and buying a bushmaster any time soon.

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Epic 4G Touch
    OK. But what does Bushmaster have to do with this?

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangertree View Post
    OK. But what does Bushmaster have to do with this?
    They also have a ton of fanboys who used to claim 'as good as' status when compared to manufacturers like Colt, LMT, bcm, DD, etc. If you use the search button, you'll find plenty of people saying as good as......and even more coming here with problems. Do a search for stag issues and you'll find the same.

    Further, it's not incumbent to me to accept your argument. It's incumbent upon you to support it with facts. Starting with stags' full compliance with the TDP, and including multiple high round count tests under rigorous conditions. Like Pat Rogers using BCM in his training classes.

    Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Epic 4G Touch
    Last edited by BufordTJustice; 08-20-12 at 23:30.
    "That thing looks about as enjoyable as a bowl of exploding dicks." - Magic_Salad0892

    "The body cannot go where the mind has not already been."

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