Entry level .308?

[Stonebridge]

Hey guys,

Up till now, I've been largely focused on close-quarters stuff and been incredibly fortunate to train with some top-notch people in that field- Hackathorn, LAV and such. I love my handguns and sub-caliber carbines but now that I have some property, I would like to be able to shoot longer range, at least far enough to cover the land itself so 500 yards and in (I guess that's really medium-range). Eventually I'd like to add a long-range course of fire, scatter some steel around for my students who are into long-range to shoot for fun. While I doubt I'll ever be good enough to teach long-range shooting, I can certainly bring others in to do so.

Anyway, I'm looking for something to get started. Training wheels if you will. I'm not going to drop a fortune on a rifle and glass just starting out, just like I wouldn't buy $1500 golf clubs the first time I hit the links; I'm not good enough to where the additional performance will matter.

Right now I'm leaning toward a Savage with some Vortex glass only because my buddy is a Vortex dealer and can get me a good deal. I'd prefer a rifle with detachable box magazines... because... um... that's what I want.

So, does this sound like a decent enough setup to get started? I won't be rebarreling or smithing or anything else. I want to learn with this rifle until I feel that it's holding me back (which may never actually happen) and then if I need to upgrade, I'll build my once-in-a-lifetime rifle.

Aftermarket support isn't a huge deal because it'll be a while before I start messing with it. I would like a decently short barrel for convenience if I'm not giving up too much performance. One of my buddies on local PD/SWAT has his 700 cut down to 18". It's a mean little stick and for LEO engagement distances, darn near perfect.

So anyway, looking for a beginner's rifle, I'm not on any SWAT team's speed dial, I just want to be able to cover any of my three pieces of land which means 500 yards or less. The Savage and Vortex glass should give you an idea of my budget.

Thanks so much for any assistance you can give.

-'bridge

[anthony1]

I'd say a savage or rem 700. Both good for your purposes. Get one with a hs precision stock or be prepared to buy a decent stock if you get one of the rifles with the factory synthetic stocks- there a joke.

Vortex Pst are good for the money, bushnell and weaver also have some good entry level ffp scopes for under 1k.

I'd probably get a 223 if I were only shooting out to 500 yds, if not 308- both have readily available factory match ammo so you don't have to reload.

Sounds like you pretty much got the basics covererd. Good luck.

[Boxerglocker]

I agree with Anthony1... If 500 yards is your limit.... then it's possible that a .308 is actually a waste.
When I got into building my precision rifle I debated back and forth and went with .223, my two buddies went all testosterone and opted for .308 even though they knew their range restrictions were the same.
I'm on the same boat as the OP. My home club range is limited to 200 meters the other I visit as a members guest is 300 yards. I do visit two others that push 400-500 for match days only.
I hand load my own varmint and heavy bullet loads for my R700 SPS Tactical in .223 at 200 yards my rifle can do half MOA with Varget or H335 powder pushing 55 Vmax or 60 Nosler ballistics bullets. I can hand load either for less than $30 a hundred. When I practice with my buddies for an afternoon they are done at 40 rounds and a lot deeper into their pockets with factory ammo.



Remington SPS Tactical in .223
B&C Medalist Tactical stock, KRG bolt lift, SWFA SS 10x42 scope, TPS 0 MOA base and 30mm rings. Timney 510 trigger, Harris bipod.

[BrigandTwoFour]

You're going to get a lot of opinions from everyone pushing their rifle of preference at your price point.

The truth is, they will almost all work just fine for you. Rem 700's will have the longest lifetime support, but may not work as great out of the box.

Savages have a reputation for being tack drivers out of the box, but not working out long term (note: I have no experience on this, it's just scuttlebutt)

Tikka T3s have fantastic triggers and a great reputation.

Howa 1500s are not as well known, but also seem to have great performance. There is a factory detachable mag kit available for $90ish. Not much gunsmith support out there, though.

Pretty much any option you go with is going to require a new stock, except maybe the Savage, if you got the accustock.

.308 or .223 won't matter too much at the range you're looking at. But if you ever get the chance to go up to 1000, you might want the .30.

Nothing wrong with Vortex glass. Stick to the Viper line and up (Viper, PST, Razor). The lower end ones were not really meant to handle heavy recoil.

[gimpy]

Everyone has their opinion based off of their experiences. I think first, you need to decide what you are willing to shell out for a rifle. I personally felt stretched spending 1000-ish on a Remington 5-R, but have been extremely happy with it. These have gotten great reviews from many people. The only real gripe I have about mine out of the box was trigger pull, but that was remedied by replacing it with one of the old style Remington triggers. You should address key features such as floated vs non-floated, quality of stock, stainless or non stainless, and to what degree would you like to customize the rifle in the long run.

[MOA]

Sounds like you got a pretty good plan. Both remmy and savage are good accurate guns. I do not like the lower end stocks, they will change zero on a bipod. Splurge for a PSS or VS in remmy. No noting of savages current line up, so cant comment there.
Big fan of Vortex scopes, the highend ones. Get a 20MOA base and good rings. Get a scope level. You dont have to limit yourself. Go do some F-class matches. If you get 308 or 223 you can shoot F/TR and trust me one good match and you will learn alot. Get the basics then you can play unknown distance and all that fun stuff.

[JW5219]

Tikka T3s have fantastic triggers and a great reputation. .

+1 I'd highly recommend a Tikka. Very accurate right out of the box, nice triggers that are easily adjustable, and silky smooth action. Also have a box magazine. You won't have to do anything with the stock either unless you prefer to. Good luck with your choice!

[fallenromeo]

The Tikka T3 is nice, but isn't it also about twice the price of the Savage 10 or R700?

Edit: Nvm. I was looking at the tactical verson which is around 1400. A quick search showed my mistake.

[SkiDevil]

You're going to get a lot of opinions from everyone pushing their rifle of preference at your price point.

The truth is, they will almost all work just fine for you. Rem 700's will have the longest lifetime support, but may not work as great out of the box.

Savages have a reputation for being tack drivers out of the box, but not working out long term (note: I have no experience on this, it's just scuttlebutt)

Tikka T3s have fantastic triggers and a great reputation.

Howa 1500s are not as well known, but also seem to have great performance. There is a factory detachable mag kit available for $90ish. Not much gunsmith support out there, though.


Pretty much any option you go with is going to require a new stock, except maybe the Savage, if you got the accustock.

.308 or .223 won't matter too much at the range you're looking at. But if you ever get the chance to go up to 1000, you might want the .30.

Nothing wrong with Vortex glass. Stick to the Viper line and up (Viper, PST, Razor). The lower end ones were not really meant to handle heavy recoil.

Solid advice.
I can tell you from first-hand experience that the Howa is a reliable and accurate rifle. The only complaint that I have is the factory trigger sucks. But a Timmey fixes that for $100.

If you look around you will note that the Howa actions are used by many custom shops and manufacturers like Weatherby, Smith and Wesson, etc.

SkiDevil

[AR15barrels]

My point with the snippet from Sniper Central is that the Remington 700 has a "history" of being one of the best actions out there. That the greatest Sniper Rifles are based on the Remington 700 action. I have read many accounts that state the actions used in the Remington 700 Police and the Remington 700 Police LTR, as well as all the other Remington 700 models, are the very same actions used in the production of the Remington SPS-Tactical. That the only real difference is the stocks and barrels used in the different models.

That's pretty much true.
The 5r barrels are significantly better than all the chromoly varmint barrels in my opinion.
The legit 700p also comes with an old style trigger that is significantly more "tunable" than the new x-marks that are on all the other guns.
Also, a legit 700P has a parkerized finish vs the crappy black oxide that's on the sps guns.