Need BOB advice.

[G19A3]

What is a good cubic inch capacity for a general/all-purpose (including possible foot bugout scenarios) BOB? Obviously, it shouldn't be too large or too small. 2,000cu in? 2,600cu in? I figure must haves are built in padded belts and hydration systems.

I have ELIMINATED my options to the following:

1. 1,334 - Blackhawk Patrol 60PP00 Pack

2. 2,000 - Blackhawk 100oz X-1 RAPTOR 3 Day Assault Pack

3. 2,135 - SnugPak Sleeka Force 35 Backpack

4. 2,300 - Kelty Strike 2300 Tactical Backpack

5. 2,440 - SnugPak Stanima 40 Backpack

6. 2,500 - Kelty Raven 2500 Tactical Backpack

7. 2,592 - CamelBak 61077 Motherlode 500 Cargo & Hydration Pack

Any positives or negatives (especially regarding brand reputations). There is a GREAT sale going on a website so unfortunately it will be mail order. I will not be able to examine the packs up close and in person.

Thanks.

[docsherm]

I have used most of those, or at least messed with them. I have a Kelty Strike 2300. It is a very good pack. I like the way it is set up. You can get them on eBay for not too much also.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kelty-Strike...item27c6c6e67b

[Ironman8]

What type of BO will you be using it for?

-More of a GHB?
-BO to a BOL?
or
-BO and "live off the land" type?...which is largly fantasyland unless you are alone or in a small group where all members are extremely well versed in survival.

As a GHB, I use a 5.11 Rush 12. It is more of a day pack size and I find it to be perfect IMO for this application. It's also black in color to look more civilian vs military...

For BO to BOL, I would want a 3-day bag or larger...this will depend on how much you already have waiting for you at your BOL as well as your needs for the BO itself, whether minimalistic or you need "the kitchen sink".

For the fantasy BO, I would be taking more of a backpacking pack (civilian style) that would be able to sustain you for a longer period of time. Something in the 4000 cube range or higher. This will also depend on your needs as mentioned above.

[VooDoo6Actual]

What is a good cubic inch capacity for a general/all-purpose (including possible foot bugout scenarios) BOB? Obviously, it shouldn't be too large or too small. 2,000cu in? 2,600cu in? I figure must haves are built in padded belts and hydration systems.

I have ELIMINATED my options to the following:

1. 1,334 - Blackhawk Patrol 60PP00 Pack

2. 2,000 - Blackhawk 100oz X-1 RAPTOR 3 Day Assault Pack

3. 2,135 - SnugPak Sleeka Force 35 Backpack

4. 2,300 - Kelty Strike 2300 Tactical Backpack

5. 2,440 - SnugPak Stanima 40 Backpack

6. 2,500 - Kelty Raven 2500 Tactical Backpack

7. 2,592 - CamelBak 61077 Motherlode 500 Cargo & Hydration Pack

Any positives or negatives (especially regarding brand reputations). There is a GREAT sale going on a website so unfortunately it will be mail order. I will not be able to examine the packs up close and in person.

Thanks.

Here's my take on your question.
I teach a Survival COI so we get these questions all the time.

Even after you have eliminated down to the listed packs you still have a disparity of over approx. 1,200 Cu in.

I would clearly define what you mean by BOB etc.

72 hr. or longer ?
How many days ?
Sustainable living out of ?
I run bigger packs & smaller packs depending on my sorte. Misson drives the gear....

I went on a smoking hot beautiful but strenuous day hike yesterday. About 6,700 ft to 10,200 ft. elevation over a distance of 2.5 mi w/ a approx. 3,000 ft elevation gain.

I carried minimal gear but still had about 20 lbs. My pack for that is different than a longer sustained type of pack is the point.

If I'm patrolling it's smaller If I'm moving to an LP/OP it's more cu in.

You need sleeping bag & pad ?
Tent?
Cooking utensils & Kit ?
Fishing Kit ?
Hunting Kit ?
cleaning supplies ?

Once you help w/ specifics I can make a better informed recommendation.

I rolled in Astan w/ a Kelty Klammath & it was fine for sustained in the field sortes'.
I rolled in GOA w/ a smaller 3 day Eagle RAID that was fine for that mission profile.
Iraq I used Kifaru X-Ray.
Other deployments different packs.

Because there's a lot of really good products I would also suggest you look @:

Mystery Ranch
Kifaru
Elberstock
Dana Design


Pick what works best for YOU.
Determine if you want a front loader, top loader, Both, side loader etc. YOU will be using it day to day so think of ease of access several times a day etc. people's styles, tastes, orgazational preferences are different.

Try them on put a load in them if you can to determine your best fit for your body's ergonomics, physiognomy (endomorph. mesomorph, ectomorph) long legged or short legged etc...

HTH....
YMMV...

[G19A3]

For now I'm leaning toward a 2,000ci BOB. Unfortunatley most of the listed bags in my original post have been sold out (waited too long I guess).

Fantasies about Mad Max, total, end-of-the-world, zombie scenarios are fun to debate. However, this BOB purchase is not for those unlikely scenarios. My GF will have an identical or almost identical BOB.

I live in a heavily urban area and this BOB is for bugging out in case I get displaced due to my apt building is engulfed by fire/ my large urban city is engulfed in a large scale LA-type riot/ etc. Basically a short-term bugout to another "unaffected" civilized area. So I'm thinking 3-day pack of some sort.

Any bugging out will initially be by SUV. But you never know if that SUV may have to be abandoned and the bugout will be by foot from that point on. Once the bugout transistions to foot, only handguns (Glock 19's) will be carried and will be concealed (CCW). Even in a SUV bugout, I doubt any longarms will be carried and if so, it would be for the purpose of safekeeping (moving from one place to another) and not for "road defense". Does this make sense?

[Jack-O]

I just tried on a bunch of packs the other day with and without weight and adjusted to my body. all I can say is that there was a pretty big difference between the one I wanted and the one that fit me best. I'd be willing to bet good money that the one that fit me best would be the one I really wanted if I had to use it for any length of time.

If I were you I'd spend some time in the store trying on some packs to see what fit the best and felt good under weight.

[Ironman8]

For now I'm leaning toward a 2,000ci BOB. Unfortunatley most of the listed bags in my original post have been sold out (waited too long I guess).

Fantasies about Mad Max, total, end-of-the-world, zombie scenarios are fun to debate. However, this BOB purchase is not for those unlikely scenarios. My GF will have an identical or almost identical BOB.

I live in a heavily urban area and this BOB is for bugging out in case I get displaced due to my apt building is engulfed by fire/ my large urban city is engulfed in a large scale LA-type riot/ etc. Basically a short-term bugout to another "unaffected" civilized area. So I'm thinking 3-day pack of some sort.

Any bugging out will initially be by SUV. But you never know if that SUV may have to be abandoned and the bugout will be by foot from that point on. Once the bugout transistions to foot, only handguns (Glock 19's) will be carried and will be concealed (CCW). Even in a SUV bugout, I doubt any longarms will be carried and if so, it would be for the purpose of safekeeping (moving from one place to another) and not for "road defense". Does this make sense?

Why are you limiting yourself to 2000 ci? IMO, a three day pack is anywhere around 2500-3000 ci....one of the most popular 3-day packs is the Eagle A-III...which happens to be just above 2600 ci. (HOP correct me if I'm wrong here on pack sizes)

Also, it seems that you are only considering military looking packs. I wouldn't rule out civilian hiking packs. Generally they are more comfortable (since they can be adjusted to your specific body), sleeker/more low profile, weigh less per ci, can be found in earth tones, have gender specific construction, and can usually be tried on in stores such as REI before purchase.

If you're stuck on 2000 ci mil packs here's a couple of good suggestions that aren't Mystery Ranch or Kirafu:
Camelbak Linchpin
Camelbak TriZip

Some slightly larger mil style packs:
Eagle AIII
Camelbak Motherlode
Camelbak BFM

And for good measure, some civ hiking packs (tried to keep them around the the same price point as the above packs):
REI Crestrail 48 - Mens
REI Crestrail 48 - Womens
Gregory Z40
Osprey Kestrel 48
Kelty Redwing 50

(all the above packs have color options in earth tones )

Also, one other thing that stood out to me in your post...you seem to have it settled that you won't be carrying your rifles at all. I see it differently.

If you were to have to BO due to a house fire, nobody would blame you for running out with your rifle, I mean lets face it, its expensive and you don't want to see it burn! Just load it up in the SUV and go to wherever your predetermined BOL is.

If it is LA-type riots and you feel its necessary to leave your home for a safer location, then I promise you if its that bad, you'll want your rifle. I also wouldn't suggest traveling during the daytime, especially if you have to go on foot.

[VooDoo6Actual]

For now I'm leaning toward a 2,000ci BOB. Unfortunatley most of the listed bags in my original post have been sold out (waited too long I guess).

Fantasies about Mad Max, total, end-of-the-world, zombie scenarios are fun to debate. However, this BOB purchase is not for those unlikely scenarios. My GF will have an identical or almost identical BOB.

I live in a heavily urban area and this BOB is for bugging out in case I get displaced due to my apt building is engulfed by fire/ my large urban city is engulfed in a large scale LA-type riot/ etc. Basically a short-term bugout to another "unaffected" civilized area. So I'm thinking 3-day pack of some sort.

Any bugging out will initially be by SUV. But you never know if that SUV may have to be abandoned and the bugout will be by foot from that point on. Once the bugout transistions to foot, only handguns (Glock 19's) will be carried and will be concealed (CCW). Even in a SUV bugout, I doubt any longarms will be carried and if so, it would be for the purpose of safekeeping (moving from one place to another) and not for "road defense". Does this make sense?

OK that helps somewhat, BUT we're still not there.
Follow along the w/ the logic & you'll see why.
What makes you think it's going to be 3 days ?
What if it's two weeks, 4 weeks, 6 months or ?
"3 day pack" is a Media hype term, Guerrilla marketing buzz words, common terms used for professionals working in First Responder NBC scenarios, Bad Weather ("White OUt"), Storms, Bridge Breaks, military application where they know they are going to be out for a known period BUT have a FOB/base camp etc. & uninformed opinions from people who have NEVER been in an austere situations of real survival, Boy Scout camping ? Why ? Because it's presumed that you will have assistance/relief/change in or of your circumstance in that time period. Also because of the first 72 hours being critical to sustenance during an emergency situation.

What makes you think you will move to an unaffected area ? Getting out of an real Urban Environment takes time. If you don't get out your trapped (choke point). What that means is that your succeptable/contagion to any & all forms of airborne pathogens, viruses, (strepp) etc. that other's may have. I'm guessing your talking real survival not some movie Bravo Sierra that the public sees & believes.

BTW, I agree that an LA type riot is very plausible & your tracking correctly there imo.

Are you going to need cooking utensils/kit ?
Space/Emergency blanket ?
Fire starter tools/utilities
Sleeping bags (obviously if your SUV ? etc.) pads, shelter/bivy or tent
Changes & or Clothes for layering inclement of weather
wash cloths for Polish showers ?
Water bottles ?
Trowel / TP & waste bucket(s) (in case no facilities where your at for waste management etc.)
Water purification device ?
lantern/candle/solar or ?
Tennis shoes ?
Ammo, cleaning supplies ?
FAT / Med KIT any-biotics/dressings/bandages etc ?
Large Water containers (5 gal or more) ?
Fuel / Gas (propane, white, diesel, Bio-fuel, conventional etc.) ?
ground tarps/cloths/poncho liners ?
Paracord/climbing rope
hunting supplies
toiletries
Matches
seeds
FOOD

Hope your tracking.
You asked a general question. No problem there & fair enough.
I & many here are use to this austere environment & actually thriving/living in these conditions.
For me to actually help you I also have to stimulate your thinking beyond the level your use to because you live in a (Urban environment) or comfortable typically discussing. Otherwise we are just casually BSing here on the net in reality.

I'm taking the time to share/give back/help my fellow brother/humanity etc. Help me so that I can give you real advice not some NET fluff....

Jack-O & Ironman8 make great suggestions as well. Fit & functionality are important over color. Color however can be important depending on where your AO is.
I would give this some really good deep thought about what your actually trying to accomplish. Because as you said & your right you don't know what's in store. It's best to make contingency plans like so many are.
DIP defend in place or ambulate to a new location ? Then what ? food caches ? begging ? community/commune/tribe style ? JIT (Just In Time) stores will be out of food in about 4 days.

Ironman8 is right you will need a rifle, 100% no doubt.

If you believe what the media is putting out there these days then you are deluding yourself in reality. That's the conditioning aspect that you are lead to believe.
The small scale tests conducted they do are nothing like a full scale urban riot or multiple riots where ALL the resources/utilities are going to be utilized etc.
Just keeping it real....
I hope you reply back after more REAL thought & I'll throw you some suggestions that are real & tangible after I get a clearer picture.

Remember the 7P's (prior, proper, planning, prevents, piss, poor, performance) & one of my mantras: it's better to be a Warrior in a Garden than Gardner in a War. If you fail to take heed you only have yourself to blame for not taking precautions or making contingency plans. The US has contingency plans for COG why shouldn't you ?
I personally feel you should have at least 3 plans.
Short term, several months & long term.

Look at the past ask yourself how did Katrina turn out ?

HTH YMMV....

[Dirk Williams]

The honesty of this thread is frightening, to semi plan, is to not plan at all. If your counting on others, then you have likely lost already.

WHEN you gotta bail" Not if" it's about your commitment to finishing what you started. Go off half cocked or with crap gear and you will quickly find yourself overwelmed by issues that should have been non issues.

Our BOB's are civilian stuff, O/R, Mountain Hardwear/ North Face Arc Teric? etc etc. We chose our gear to specifically look non military or gucci commando. Other then poncho's and liners our stuff is simply solid moutaineering gear specific to our geological area.

Our packs are internal framed and huge. We have learned that we can always carry less stuff in a bigger ruck, then more stuff in a smaller ruck.

We also don't want stuff just laying around, one pack per person makes the choice simple.

Due to where we live we also only use 4 season tents. We have bivy bags and solid 3 season tents such as Walrus's, but find for us that it's simply wiser to carry Trango 2.0's or 3.5's even in the harshest weather they offer comfort/warmth, like living in a motel 6, very roomy and comfortable in all weather conditions. A couple of pounds heavier but top notch kit and in winter here simply a must have.

Our kits with food minus water are under 26/30 pounds " Splitting up the tents internals" to share the weight load. Food is lots and lots of bagged tuna and salmon in oil. Instant oats and other light weight foods that are simple to prepare. Also main mre meals broken down. Now we gotta add weapons/NV/ bino's etc etc and watch the weight grow

Thanks for sharing, Keep the idea's coming as we see many oppertunities to learn from others here.

DW

[ra2bach]

The honesty of this thread is frightening, to semi plan, is to not plan at all. If your counting on others, then you have likely lost already.

WHEN you gotta bail" Not if" it's about your commitment to finishing what you started. Go off half cocked or with crap gear and you will quickly find yourself overwelmed by issues that should have been non issues.

Our BOB's are civilian stuff, O/R, Mountain Hardwear/ North Face Arc Teric? etc etc. We chose our gear to specifically look non military or gucci commando. Other then poncho's and liners our stuff is simply solid moutaineering gear specific to our geological area.

Our packs are internal framed and huge. We have learned that we can always carry less stuff in a bigger ruck, then more stuff in a smaller ruck.

We also don't want stuff just laying around, one pack per person makes the choice simple.

Due to where we live we also only use 4 season tents. We have bivy bags and solid 3 season tents such as Walrus's, but find for us that it's simply wiser to carry Trango 2.0's or 3.5's even in the harshest weather they offer comfort/warmth, like living in a motel 6, very roomy and comfortable in all weather conditions. A couple of pounds heavier but top notch kit and in winter here simply a must have.

Our kits with food minus water are under 26/30 pounds " Splitting up the tents internals" to share the weight load. Food is lots and lots of bagged tuna and salmon in oil. Instant oats and other light weight foods that are simple to prepare. Also main mre meals broken down. Now we gotta add weapons/NV/ bino's etc etc and watch the weight grow

Thanks for sharing, Keep the idea's coming as we see many oppertunities to learn from others here.

DW

so what's your anticipated use? bug out? or get home?..

a loadout like you describe is different than the needs of someone like say, an ER tech in a downtown hospital who just needs to get home to the burbs in the event of a catastrophic or social disruption...