How many people are practicing shooting offhand beyond "close range"?

[Moltke]

This question is in response to the AR's in Action thread.

How many people here are actively practicing shooting standing unsupported (aka offhand) beyond the distance that you consider to be "close range"? If you could also provide the following in your answers, then it would be appreciated.


Why are you practicing offhand beyond close range?
What do you consider to be "close range" and why?
What gun, optic, ammo are you using, and what's your firing pace?
What distances do you practice different positions at?
How often do you actually practice offhand? At close range or otherwise?
What has your measure of success been with practicing offhand? Group size? Hits on steel? General feelings of goodness?


Please include the "why" with your answers instead of just saying "I shoot offhand too" or junk responses along those lines. If you don't practice offhand beyond close range then feel free to jump in and explain why you don't practice it, but please know that I already understand that shooting offhand at a distant target is not the best way to engage it if you are able to assume a more stable supported position. I'm just curious who practices it, how they do it, and why.

[Shawn.L]

I dont shoot much carbine in comparison to my pistol shooting. Maybe 3-4k/year at most. So when I do shoot carbine , I try to shoot it at distances past 50 yards as much as possible. I dont see too much use in me working mostly inside 25 yards in a pistol bay, as those are primarily skills I can work with pistol and get more out of IMO, not to say I dodnt do it from time to time to work fast presentations , movement, ect.

Having said that I'll shoot standing unsupported out to 100 yards on 1/4 IPSC steel (tacstrike torso plates) . 100 is still kinda iffy as far as taking that shot for real, but the more I work at range the easier the close stuff gets. Like shooting 25 yard bulls with a pistol, suddenly A zone at 10 yards look HUGE.

I will do shot from the ready on a timer out to 100, but mostly standing I want to be at 50 yards (same target) . I can do transitions from 50 to 100 and then into positional shooting out to 200 all timed, but if Im shooting paper for accuracy I dont see much point in shooting past 50 for me.

Im shooting a 16 inch carbine with a EOTech , sometimes irons (NM front sight) on a 18" gun .

[TriumphRat675]

I will define "actively practicing" extremely generously (i.e., whenever I am at a range that allows me to do it and when I shoot my rifle, both of which are rare).

Why are you practicing offhand beyond close range?

Because it is fun and challenging. It is hard to see any practical application for me.

What do you consider to be "close range" and why?

Approx. 25 yards. It's arbitrary. Handgun engagement ranges are "close range" to me when using a rifle.

What gun, optic, ammo are you using, and what's your firing pace?

6920, Aimpoint, anything cheap, and up to 1 shot/second at distance. Faster up close. Results vary depending on distance.

What distances do you practice different positions at?

50 to 100 yards.

How often do you actually practice offhand? Close range or otherwise?.

Up close, every time I shoot the carbine, very rarely at distance. More often at close range because the bays at ranges I have easy access to are limited. So several times a year up close and maybe yearly at distance (extremely generous definition!).

What has your measure of success been with practicing this position? Group size? Hits on steel? General feelings of goodness?.

Group size/hits on steel at distance when available. Trying to keep everything w/in a 6 to 8 inch circle, approx., at close range; upper torso hits at distance whether paper or steel.

[glocktogo]

I define anything close enough that I'm faster getting multiple hits offhand than assuming a supported position as "close range". For me that's about 75 yards. For others it may be different. My practice off hand past 75 yards probably accounts for less than 5% of my practice. If I'm that far away, I can afford the time to take a supported position.

Primary rifle is a 14.5" BCM LW Middy with an Aimpoint H1.
Whatever 5.56 I have on hand for practice.
Accuracy expectations are center torso hits, so say a 6" circle?
Speed is dependent on range and the aforementioned 6" accuracy standard. Say .15 second splits up to .75 second splits from 0-75 yards.
I'd venture a guess that my round count is split 80-20 between speed and accuracy (accuracy being 2MOA or better hits).
I practice going into and out of positions frequently, regardless of range. Like I stated, past 75 yards I'll practice standing barricade support, kneeling or sitting. Past 200 yards I usually go prone. With my Noveske 18" precision rig, I add precision head shots at 300 (Non-Threat torso plate with swinging threat head plate).

Having been a Marine Expert rifleman and lifelong hunter, I'm accustomed to accurate shooting. Most of my practice these days is centered around speed, maneuver and weapon manipulation.

[HackerF15E]

Offhand standing is the vast majority of my rifle shooting. Usually 100 yd, but occasionally in at 75 or 50. Iron sights only.

I shoot that because it is the most demanding method for me. It requires the most control of all the marksmanship disciplines. I figure that if I can control my aim, breathing, muscle memory, etc, while standing offhand, then shooting supported with any aid will be significantly easier. It's also just fun to do.

My measure of success is hitting an 8" steel gong -- enough to take down a man or game at that range.

Shooting a 14.5" carbine under an A2 handle.

[AKDoug]

Why are you practicing offhand beyond close range?

I also hunt with my AR. I like to be able to take quick shots at wolves and coyotes and have the confidence to do so. In a practical application vs. humans I doubt I will ever need to shoot beyond 50 yds.

What do you consider to be "close range" and why?

Less than 50 yards. I live in a rural area. Threats to me and my family can easily be out to 50 yards in some scenarios.

What gun, optic, ammo are you using, and what's your firing pace?

DDM4V7, Vortex Sparc (waiting for my Trijicon TR24), UMC 55gr.

What distances do you practice different positions at?

I shoot standing unsupported at all distances out to 200 yards. I try to keep my shots on a 8" gong out to 100 yards and a 12x18 plate at 200 yards. I also shoot a bunch of prone at 100 yards and 200 yards. I increase my shooting pace based on distance. I can easily keep hits on the plate at 200 yards from prone 1 shot per second.

How often do you actually practice offhand? At close range or otherwise?

A minimum of 500 rounds a month, but I've been averaging about three range sessions a month @250 rounds for the last three months. I practice at close and long range in each session.

What has your measure of success been with practicing offhand? Group size? Hits on steel? General feelings of goodness?

Like my pistol shooting I push myself to go as fast as I can at all distances to score a 8" kill shot. In the case of a carbine I want that 8" shot out to 100 yards as fast as I can make 90% of my hits. Anything beyond that I am pleased with any upper torso hit. I only shoot group sizes from the bench to make sure there is no "weirdness" with the carbine. Anything under 10 round 2" groups is good enough for me and my DDM4 will do that with any ammo I have fed it. For "general feelings of goodness" I mix in a minimum of 1/2 hour of nothing but weapon manipulations, immediate actions (both clearing malfunctions and transition to pistol) and reloads.

[evosil98]

Why are you practicing offhand beyond close range?
Improve USMC rifle qual, and accuracy. Quick target acquisition and engagement

What gun, optic, ammo are you using, and what's your firing pace?
20" M16a4 clone service rifle (BCM), TA31 A4 acog/ iron sights, m193

What distances do you practice different positions at?
100 yard target, 200-400yd steel targets at local range

How often do you actually practice offhand? At close range or otherwise?
Everytime I go to the range


What has your measure of success been with practicing offhand? Group size? Hits on steel? General feelings of goodness?

For me, practice is essential to improving accuracy and effectiveness.

[Moltke]

Thanks for the responses so far, glad to see some people do this. Individual responses and questions coming.

[Moltke]

I dont shoot much carbine in comparison to my pistol shooting. Maybe 3-4k/year at most. So when I do shoot carbine , I try to shoot it at distances past 50 yards as much as possible. I dont see too much use in me working mostly inside 25 yards in a pistol bay, as those are primarily skills I can work with pistol and get more out of IMO, not to say I dodnt do it from time to time to work fast presentations , movement, ect.

Having said that I'll shoot standing unsupported out to 100 yards on 1/4 IPSC steel (tacstrike torso plates) . 100 is still kinda iffy as far as taking that shot for real, but the more I work at range the easier the close stuff gets. Like shooting 25 yard bulls with a pistol, suddenly A zone at 10 yards look HUGE.

I will do shot from the ready on a timer out to 100, but mostly standing I want to be at 50 yards (same target) . I can do transitions from 50 to 100 and then into positional shooting out to 200 all timed, but if Im shooting paper for accuracy I dont see much point in shooting past 50 for me.

Im shooting a 16 inch carbine with a EOTech , sometimes irons (NM front sight) on a 18" gun .

The bolded info is one of the reasons why I'm interested in shooting offhand beyond "close range", same concept of what I've done with pistols recently, but for rifles. Since I've started shooting regularly at 25 yards with my pistol instead of 10 yards, I've noticed my skill increase, and was thinking this would have to hold true to some degree with my rifle.

[Moltke]

I will define "actively practicing" extremely generously (i.e., whenever I am at a range that allows me to do it and when I shoot my rifle, both of which are rare).



Because it is fun and challenging. It is hard to see any practical application for me.



Approx. 25 yards. It's arbitrary. Handgun engagement ranges are "close range" to me when using a rifle.



6920, Aimpoint, anything cheap, and up to 1 shot/second at distance. Faster up close. Results vary depending on distance.



50 to 100 yards.



Up close, every time I shoot the carbine, very rarely at distance. More often at close range because the bays at ranges I have easy access to are limited. So several times a year up close and maybe yearly at distance (extremely generous definition!).



Group size/hits on steel at distance when available. Trying to keep everything w/in a 6 to 8 inch circle, approx., at close range; upper torso hits at distance whether paper or steel.

At close range you want 6-8 inch groups with rapid fire, and at distance which is 50-100 yards you want anything on the upper torso with shots about 1 second apart? Sounds adequate. Is this something you came up with on your own or is this a standard somewhere?