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Thread: Bolt assembly crud

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roodoodog View Post
    While on the subject and just out of curiosity, does anyone have any experiences with these yet?

    C.A.T. M-4


    In regards to the original post, in my limited experience (but as posted by several others as well) I found keeping my bolt assembly lubed helped keep a majority of the carbon off and what did stick was easily removed.
    I have one and its the only scraper i would ever recommend, that said I dont use it to scrape, I use it to clean the inside of the carrier since it has a slot for a 2"x2" patch to get into the carrier and wipe it out.

    the CAT-M4 does everything it says it does.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    I have one and its the only scraper i would ever recommend, that said I dont use it to scrape, I use it to clean the inside of the carrier since it has a slot for a 2"x2" patch to get into the carrier and wipe it out.

    the CAT-M4 does everything it says it does.
    Thanks Sin, for under $30 I should probably pony up the cash and grab one.
    The Highest Truth is reality distinguished from illusion for the welfare of all.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by militarymoron View Post
    i decided to respond because i'd like to get to the bottom of it. the main reason that the 'anti-cleaners' give is that by scraping the carbon off the bolt tail, you risk damaging it, and that it's a 'critical dimension'.
    however, the built up crud on the tail changes the dimensions much more than any cosmetic damage or worn finish that using a bolt scraper tool does. so, that argument contradicts itself.
    so, is it critical or not? personally, i don't think so. i don't think that scraping carbon off the bolt tail with the proper tool can damage or remove metal from the bolt enough to affect the functioning of the weapon.
    if so, letting the crud build up would affect it more. is it necessary to scrape it off? i don't think so either.

    IMHO, i just think that it boils down to personal preference. clean it if you want or don't (and keep it lubed well). either way seems to work for both parties or else there wouldn't be much to argue about.
    I use the G and G tool and the green scotch brite pads (the ones without the aluminum strands in them, from the 99 cents store). My bolt is a stag chrome plated, so if this treatment were damaging the metal i'd see it.

    Here's the G & G tool, it is only $19.95. Half the cost of the CRT-15. You shove in the bolt tail, the round steel blade bears against the carbon. You then rotate the bolt, and the steel blade scrapes off the carbon. The steel blade is not very sharp at all, but it is contoured properly to fit the curve of the bolt tail. They sell spare blades but the one that comes with it is two sided, if you wear out one end there's another end to use. Also the G & G people sell what are basically scotch brite pads cut into strips, for final finishing. I just buy a 3 pack of the pads at the store and cut them into 2 inch wide strips, and it is the same thing.


    Here's pictures of my chrome plated bolt after 1000 rounds, is there any chance i am damaging it?


    Last edited by Markasaurus; 07-03-12 at 00:44.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markasaurus View Post
    I use the G and G tool and the green scotch brite pads (the ones without the aluminum strands in them, from the 99 cents store). My bolt is a stag chrome plated, so if this treatment were damaging the metal i'd see it.

    Here's the G & G tool, it is only $19.95. Half the cost of the CRT-15. You shove in the bolt tail, the round steel blade bears against the carbon. You then rotate the bolt, and the steel blade scrapes off the carbon. The steel blade is not very sharp at all, but it is contoured properly to fit the curve of the bolt tail. They sell spare blades but the one that comes with it is two sided, if you wear out one end there's another end to use. Also the G & G people sell what are basically scotch brite pads cut into strips, for final finishing. I just buy a 3 pack of the pads at the store and cut them into 2 inch wide strips, and it is the same thing.


    Here's pictures of my chrome plated bolt after 1000 rounds, is there any chance i am damaging it?


    its hard to tell from the pics but the bolt tail does indeed appear to be much shinier than the bolt body, this would indicate less of a finish than the rest of the bolt that was not scrubbed with a brillo pad.

  5. #55
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    That wouldn't surprise me - you're probably right, i may have scraped the chrome plate off. The chroming was not exactly top notch i don't think, I can't remember seeing chrome plating that wasn't SHINY.

    I also have a titanium plated cam pin, i should have taken a picture of that too; the plating was totally gone, worn off from the part of the cam pin where it wears in the classic swirl pattern, after 100 rounds.

    I have thought of getting the "Fail zero" parts but they are very pricey for the problem they are supposed to solve. Honestly if I had known how dirty the DI AR's get, and what a PITA to properly clean (dirty guns really bug me - yes, I have some kind of weird OCD, my apartments a mess but all my guns are spotless...)

    Not to turn this into a piston gun post but allow me to stray a bit off topic for a minute....i wish i had bought the Stag 8 piston AR, it was less then $200 more at the same gun store. No worries about scraping bolts or carriers, just the piston. Some pics...i wonder how much they'd sell a conversion kit probably a lot...

    Gas block on Model 8

    Piston rod and spring and gas plug

    Piston and rod replaces gas tube


    The bolt carrier...Stag claims the design eliminates bolt tilt.
    Last edited by Markasaurus; 07-03-12 at 03:18.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by militarymoron View Post
    okay, i've heard this so many times before i'm wondering by what mechanism the carbon 'self limits'?
    does it build up to a certain point then not build up anymore? where does the subsequent carbon go after the previous carbon has self limited? does it build up then fall off? does it somehow lose adhesion to the bolt when it reaches a certain thickness?
    just asking, as i'm curious.
    I should've been more clear in my post. The idea it is self limiting has been put out there for a while now and I have come to agree with it for the most part. I dont think there is a specific point at which it no longer builds or that it no longer will at all, just that it doesn't go beyond the functional threshold. From my own observation of what little sample size I have of personal weapons and those from others I have handled, including a couple of high round count LE carbines... I have never seen carbon build up enough to affect function. My non-scientific take on it is, some of it gets blown off and becomes part of the loose gunk you can easily wipe off.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markasaurus View Post
    That wouldn't surprise me - you're probably right, i may have scraped the chrome plate off. The chroming was not exactly top notch i don't think, I can't remember seeing chrome plating that wasn't SHINY.

    I also have a titanium plated cam pin, i should have taken a picture of that too; the plating was totally gone, worn off from the part of the cam pin where it wears in the classic swirl pattern, after 100 rounds.

    I have thought of getting the "Fail zero" parts but they are very pricey for the problem they are supposed to solve. Honestly if I had known how dirty the DI AR's get, and what a PITA to properly clean (dirty guns really bug me - yes, I have some kind of weird OCD, my apartments a mess but all my guns are spotless...)

    Not to turn this into a piston gun post but allow me to stray a bit off topic for a minute....i wish i had bought the Stag 8 piston AR, it was less then $200 more at the same gun store. No worries about scraping bolts or carriers, just the piston. Some pics...i wonder how much they'd sell a conversion kit probably a lot...

    Gas block on Model 8

    Piston rod and spring and gas plug

    Piston and rod replaces gas tube


    The bolt carrier...Stag claims the design eliminates bolt tilt.
    Move past your OCD. Carbon build u doesnt affect the rifle, run it wet and wipe it down when your done, thats honestly all you need.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlelebowski View Post
    No need to scrape it. Lube, ignore, drive on.
    Boresnake, BCG wipedown, Slip2000 and 5 minutes is all it should take to 'clean' a carbine IMO.

    Buildup is a sign you're using your rifle...which I view as a goooood thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Roodoodog View Post
    While on the subject and just out of curiosity, does anyone have any experiences with these yet?

    C.A.T. M-4
    Waste of money IMO. The scraper does nothing a spent casing wont. In either case, it's a waste of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Markasaurus View Post
    That wouldn't surprise me - you're probably right, i may have scraped the chrome plate off. The chroming was not exactly top notch i don't think, I can't remember seeing chrome plating that wasn't SHINY.

    I also have a titanium plated cam pin, i should have taken a picture of that too; the plating was totally gone, worn off from the part of the cam pin where it wears in the classic swirl pattern, after 100 rounds.

    I have thought of getting the "Fail zero" parts but they are very pricey for the problem they are supposed to solve. Honestly if I had known how dirty the DI AR's get, and what a PITA to properly clean (dirty guns really bug me - yes, I have some kind of weird OCD, my apartments a mess but all my guns are spotless...)

    Not to turn this into a piston gun post but allow me to stray a bit off topic for a minute....i wish i had bought the Stag 8 piston AR, it was less then $200 more at the same gun store. No worries about scraping bolts or carriers, just the piston. Some pics...i wonder how much they'd sell a conversion kit probably a lot...
    There's never a reason to clean to the point of removing a finish/surface treatment.

    IDK if the phrases "I wish I had bought" and "Stag" will ever cross my sober mind. Dumping a proven system for a shitty brand just because it 'runs cleaner'...this may be the wrong forum for that mindset. Just sayin.
    Last edited by munch520; 07-03-12 at 09:33.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by munch520 View Post
    Boresnake, BCG wipedown, Slip2000 and 5 minutes is all it should take to 'clean' a carbine IMO.

    Buildup is a sign you're using your rifle...which I view as a goooood thing



    Waste of money IMO. The scraper does nothing a spent casing wont. In either case, it's a waste of time.



    There's never a reason to clean to the point of removing a finish/surface treatment.

    IDK if the phrases "I wish I had bought" and "Stag" will ever cross my sober mind. Dumping a proven system for a shitty brand just because it 'runs cleaner'...this may be the wrong forum for that mindset. Just sayin.
    what's wrong with Stag?

    The bolt is shot-peened, they use the full-auto bcg, a 5.56 barrel. And they have a lifetime warranty.
    Last edited by Markasaurus; 07-03-12 at 19:13.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markasaurus View Post
    what's wrong with Stag? They are a subsidiary of CMT (continental machine and tool) and they have been making mil-spec uppers, lowers and ar parts for decades. Your top of the line AR might even have some of those parts in it.

    The bolt is shot-peened, they use the full-auto bcg, a 5.56 barrel. And they have a lifetime warranty...does yours?
    and bushmaster is a part of remington but that doesnt mean they are even close to quality

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