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Thread: Bad-Ass throw lever Q

  1. #11
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    John Noveske might not be able to make a 45 degree throw center that works perfectly, but that certainly doesn't mean BAD Inc. didn't do it long ago. They have tested this extensively in house, and can't reproduce it in the least. Moreover, tons and tons of BAD-ASS STs are in rifles now, and have been for some time....yet not a report about a single occurrence of a discharge on safe.

    It would be a much more kosher move for Noveske to clearly spell out that their designs failed below 60 degrees.....not anybody else's design but theirs. The method, and results to document that statement would be nice as well.


    The STS may turn out to be the perfect accessory for tons of people in the future, but one thing that should be made very clear.....The BAD-ASS lineup of selectors, and the STS selector are radically different, and the only thing they really share is that their both AR selectors.

    The fact one isn't modular in the least, and one uses polymer levers are a few of the most striking differences for myself.

    I found the following to be very telling....

    In the not to distance past when BAD-ASS customers directly petitioned John to make receivers for ST selectors, he said “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it."

    Wonder what changed?


    The BAD-ASS ST is a proven product by both company and endusers now. The fact that the ST is now enjoying incredible success in the market, and receiving nothing but glowing review after review is sure to bring competition to the table. So If someone wants to compete with it than good for them, but if you can't seem to get it right with 45 degrees in your design, doesn't mean somebody else isn't doing it right.

    That whole 60 degree thing only applies to Noveske, and whatever he did to find that his design couldn't handle anything less than 60 degrees. The BAD-ASS ST design definitely shouldn't be diminished by their competitor's failures.
    Last edited by ALCOAR; 07-19-12 at 14:05.

  2. #12
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    Iirc, BAD even said their 45 degree selectors could be fired when on safe, if used in an out of spec lower.

    Noveske is probably trying to limit their liability, just like BAD did with their ST levers by making it only work with certain lowers and voiding your warranty if you modify them to work with any lower.
    "I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein

  3. #13
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    I appreciate the information. I was not aware of the alleged issue, but I did mess around quite a bit with ample pressure on trigger on safe and fire modes as I wasn't used to the short throw. It appears to work fine with my setup.

    At any rate, I'd like to know more about the "extreme conditions...[and] if enough pressure was exerted on the trigger" as well as to what extent this is affected by the use of aftermarket trigger groups.

    That is, what is "extreme", e.g., a failure of the safety spring, detent (or both), trigger sear, introduction of foreign body/material between the detent and lever, etc.? Similarly, what is enough pressure? If John Noveske wants to test that, he can recruit me as I can fully close one of these. Seriously, I suspect this refers to a blow to the trigger or something similar, but would be beneficial to know nonetheless.

  4. #14
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    Guys, the 45 degree selector is more sensitive to triggers that vary greatly from factory triggers. So far, we've identified Wilson TR TTU, and TTU MIL, as their rear trigger extension is either too low, or comes up at such an angle that does not engage the 45 degree center.

    The AR Gold trigger may not work on some receivers, it works on many others.

    We freely publish and share information, as a company, we're remarkably transparent.

    For months we were experimenting with short throw selectors with a greater arc, anywhere between 50 and 60 degrees. The reason has nothing to do with these triggers that are so different from factory dimensions, but to make the inevitable slack more tolerable (when the detent is engaged in the detent hole, you can rotate the lever back and forth a little, which is normal).

    With hundreds of 45 degree selectors (both the dovetailed and non-dovetailed) in the wild, these are the only cases we know about. In every case, switching to either a factory or Geissele trigger has solved the issue. In some cases, we exchanged the incompatible triggers with Geissele triggers (we're a Geissele distributor).

    IF the concept was flawed enough to manifest its shortcomings in semi auto guise, these users would have found them,and that would have been the end of it.

    Pax, the manufacturers of 45 degree compatible receivers have already done their testing. Rainier Arms, AXTS, Legion Firearms, Accurate Armory, to name a few. If you have a receiver that's not out of spec, a trigger other than Wilson TTU, you can test it, we'll provide you with a 45 degree selector to boot. You will find the proof yourself

    We welcome competition, end users have more choices and it keeps up the pressure to continue to innovate and improve. With companies making better products than the status quo, end users benefit from higher quality and better ergonomics, it's a win for them
    Roger Wang
    Forward Controls Design
    Simplicity is the sign of truth

  5. #15
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    I've been running the ST since early last year, and haven't once noticed any tendency for the trigger to push off the ST selector.. And, I've pushed pretty hard. Noveske is taking the safe approach as they cannot control which trigger the customer has fitted into the lower of their rifle, and producing a semi- short throw selector to cover any liability issue that may arise from the use of their selector with trigger components that may not be to specific dimensions. My ST integrates well with a Geissle trigger that I purchased along with the selector.

  6. #16
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    Brigand,
    There was a batch early in 2012 where the detent hole dimensions were machined incorrectly, we had published the recall info. Please email me with your shipping info, I will send you a replacement and couple of detents. The center itself will hardly wear, being made of much harder steel and heat treated, what made the rotation smooth now on the defective center is the detent, which has been chewed up and worn in (thus we'd like to send you new detents with the new center)

    Thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by BrigandTwoFour View Post
    I have large hands and use the ST levers. I use standard on the left and stubby on the right. I was using the crank on the right, but was having problems with inadvertently reengaging the safety with my right index finger knuckle.

    With the stubby, I can still activate the safety with the first knuckle on my right hand, but I no longer do it unintentionally. The ST levers definitely make manipulation a lot faster.

    I don't know if I'm the only one, but when I installed both ST levers, they were a bitch to move back and forth. Two different lowers from two different companies had the same problem. I had to slowly wear in the detent areas by moving them back and forth a lot (sometimes with a small hammer).
    Roger Wang
    Forward Controls Design
    Simplicity is the sign of truth

  7. #17
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    Wow, that's very generous of you. I would greatly appreciate it. My info is incoming.
    "Man is still the first weapon of war" - Field Marshal Montgomery

    The Everyday Marksman

  8. #18
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    Replacement parts sent, should arrive in 2 or 3 days
    Roger Wang
    Forward Controls Design
    Simplicity is the sign of truth

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duffy View Post
    Replacement parts sent, should arrive in 2 or 3 days
    Wow! I'm not the person requiring the replacement, but you guys rock.

    Looks like I need to order 26 more of these

  10. #20
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    BAD-ASS safeties are the shit. As I said before my short throw is terrific and the difference in the 45° vs others is a huge one IMHO. After a little "breaking in" the manipulation of the safety is smooth and clicks into position. Simply terrific.

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