How Proficient is "Proficient"?

[Bluedreaux]

When talking about how proficient concealed carriers should be on the other thread, several people mentioned their state's LE qualification.

So just how proficient is "proficient"? Here's a qualification course that would certify officers in Texas:
30 rounds fired at anything less than 7 yards.
5 rounds fired at 7 yards.
1 timed reload.

Now there will be 15 more rounds fired, with at least one or some of them fired ALL the way back to 15 yards...But you can miss them all, it's a 70% course.
AND...The timed reload can be any length of time.
AND...There is no standard target, so the 35 hits can be into an enormous part of the target.

Link to Texas' regs... http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/...7&ch=217&rl=21

Now I wouldn't call anyone who can pass that COF "proficient". But at what point do you say, "OK, that guy's GTG."

FWIW, I'd rather not start an argument about concealed carriers' abilities, but about proficiency in general.

[gunrunner505]

Here's the 2 drills we had to shoot and pass to be certified after the class.

Drill was shot from the 7 yard line. No time limit. All rounds were fired on a threat target starting from the holster. All hits must be in the body to pass. You were judged on hits and hitting all protocol marks.
1) from the holster draw to ready pistol and load with magazine 1. One dummy round and 2 live rounds. Press check and re-holster

2) On the ready signal present the pistol from the holster and press the trigger-the weapon will not fire-perform a class 1 malfunction drill and apply the 2 rounds on target. The weapon will go to slide lock.

3) Perform a speed relead and apply 2 rounds on target.

4) Unload, clear and press check. Safely re-holster.

We shot this one at a time with everyone else watching and critiqing. If you hated getting up in front of the class in school, this was right up your alley.

Basic Combat Qual Course. Shot on a target with 8 1/2 x 14" center. Only hits inside this box counted for score. Minimum pass was 72%, 18 hits inside the box.

From 7 yards-10 rounds
2 rounds in 4 seconds from ready pistol - 1 rep
2 rounds in 6 seconds from the holster - 1 rep
2 rounds in 8 seconds from the holster - shoot 1, speed reload, shoot 1. 1 rep
2 rounds in 12 seconds from the holster - shoot 1, tac reload, shoot 1. 1 rep.
2 rounds in 10 seconds from the holster - shoot 1, emerg reload, shoot 1. 1 rep

From 10 yards-10 rounds
2 rounds in 5 seconds from ready pistol - 1 rep
2 rounds in 7 seconds from the holster - 1 rep
6 shot rhythm drill in 10 seconds from ready pistol - 1 rep

From 15 yards-5 rounds
2 rounds in 6 seconds from ready pistol - 1 rep
3 rounds in 9 seconds from the holster - 1 rep

I got the second highest score on this drill. I cound have re-shot it but I took my small win and was happy.

These are I'm sure not the toughest drills but they are a good base.

[tdoom15]

These are I'm sure not the toughest drills but they are a good base.

Sad as it is, I think this would eliminate well over half of all permit holders across the US.

[bodyarmorguy]

Florida leaves it very broad in the CCW license requirements. It states simply that the applicant must demonstrate proficiency and leaves the definition of proficiency up to the individual instructor.

I have watched the classes at the gun shows after which they would take the applicants to a local range and they would walk over to a bench, pick up a revolver and fire one round down range. They were not even required to hit the target. NOW, they do not even do that. They fire one round of wax ammo into a cardboard box behind the stage at the show.

When I teach my class, the applicants shoot the same course of fire that FDLE requires for Police Officers to maintain certification.

1 yard line - 4 rounds
3 yard line - 6 rounds
7 yard line - 6 rounds
7 yard line - 6rounds
7 yard line - 12 rounds including a reload
15 yard line - 6 rounds

All stages are shot under time and requires at least 32 hits out of 40 to pass. It is not the most challenging course in the world, but I at least feel comfortable defending that course in court as it meets the standard required for working LEO's and HR218.

[gunrunner505]

The class I took the instructor was a 20+ year police veteran and police firearms instructor. We were told that basic combat qual course we shot was the same course either all Chicago cops or all cops in Illinois have to shoot. I don't remember for sure.

I pulled 2 rounds and I knew they were bad the second I fired them. Literally I missed by .40 inch, as my pistol is 40S&W. Just missed the line. Pissed me off.

Another reason the instrutor had us shoot this course was in case anyone shot somebody and he had to go to court. It's the same course of fire and training regimen the cops get. He could pull your traning record and go over every detail of how and what you were taught, how well you shot the qual course, everything.