"Range Kata"

[Failure2Stop]

Anyway, F2S, if you can provide examples of what you believe we are discussing in this thread it would be greatly appreciated, because I am missing something as well.

I can only speak to my perception of the discussion, which was completely in line with my opinion until umbrage was taken at the defamation of Kata, which was followed by lengthy dissertations and reaches of definitions to permit rapid typing prior to insight.

Here is how I view the topic:
What do people do, with the belief that their "pretend" time is doing something, that proclaim its tacticality, despite the lack of any actual relevance to the real world. Perform an action, perform another action, all without any true comprehension of the deeper "why". There is no "why" to dance other than to be visually appealing. Martial craft has a deeper and more grave purpose.

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[az doug]

Thanks.

[Axcelea]

If you don't understand the difference between training/rehearsal and the issue the thread is discussing, I don't know what to say to you. It appears that the concept is either completely eluding you or that you are intentionally being obtuse.

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I am not saying there isn't a difference. I am saying the difference is in the mindset of the individual and what they do with it. It all begins the same with doing a pre planned set of actions that can be done for the sake of doing it or to train for the big picture the difference is what is done with it not the act itself.

I think we are largely in agreement that this is about issues relating to just going through motions. I am just saying anything can end up as going through the motions with the exception of something "random" like going into a course or exercise blind and having to act on the fly.

[sinister]

This is a question that comes up in the artificial training world because no matter how good or who the instructor is he simply cannot impart the ability to show all hows and whys of a particular technique in a two- or three-day course on a flat range with perhaps a half- or full day in a training apparatus -- it ain't gonna happen.

If nobody's shooting at you (simunition or live) your brain may or may not absorb the lesson, and it won't be reinforced over a mere three days of training at 8-hours a day. You can "What-if" until the cows come home.

Technical practice and repetition comes from...technical practice and repetition, doing drills (immediate action or immediate reaction) either individually or collectively against a standard (time, hits, etc.). That is simply how teams are built, whether it's playing a ball game or a deliberate night raid or attack / multi-floor / multi-structure on foot, or something as complex as brigades/divisions in tanks and fighting vehicles, supported by artillery and air.

It's why the military does practices, maneuvers, evals, and demonstrations.

If you're doing this as a singleton or collectively as a member of a small, part-time metro SWAT team you have to really, really work at it and be willing to record and honestly critique yourself and where you are.

You can't improve individual technique until you self-critique or get an external look by someone at your own or higher level of competence. Peer and outside review doesn't have to be harsh or brutal but it has to be through a trained, competent, and objective eye.

Combat reinforces this. Had a Sergeant Major who nodded as we discussed this with youngsters. During a contact as a team sergeant he kept his head on the swivel and gave on-the-spot guidance so his teams weren't flanked or hit from behind as most attention was forward into direction of primary threat.

Being able to do the basics, on demand, takes practice.

[Surf]

I saw this post on its first day, but didn't have the time to comment. So perhaps late, but a few of my thoughts and I will be echoing much of what has been said. Some very great explanations or reasons for doing things. Many may not understand their meaning at face value when just observing, but the importance is the understanding of the student as to the context of the "why" it is being performed and its actual application to various scenario's that they may encounter. I will also say that the professional meat eaters out there are just that, professionals. They may deal with this type of thing on a regular basis and will process and respond much more efficiently than even your average street cop, much less a civilian with only basic CCW training. So we really need to take into account the student and their frame of reference or experience and their time to dedicate towards training.

Scan and Assess - This really should be Assess, Scan and Reassess. When you engage a target, we should be thinking;
1 - Did it hit? Did I actually get a hit or hits on my intended target?
2 - Did it work? Did I get the desired results on target from my hits?
3 - Does it need more hits? If I did not get the desired results, do I need to put more rounds on target, perhaps in a different location where more precision might be needed?
4 - Are there any other threats? Once the "immediate" and "known" is no longer and issue, are there any other threats or issues that need to be addressed or looked at?

Again the more experience, the accuracy and speed of this process increases. Also as has been mentioned prior in this thread we are not only scanning for threats, but where is our partner(s), general public, are there any injured persons etc.

I do believe in doing some type of movement during the assess, scan and reassess. IMO, it starts the blood flowing, opens that tunnel back up and increases our own awareness in general after having gone into reptilian brain mode after having brushed elbows with the grim reaper. Breathe, just breathe is a reminder that I often give.

I teach and am a proponent of the assess, scan and reassess for these reasons. I definitely see to much of this being mimicked due to people watching too many training DVD's. The problem being is that people are picking up bad habits and are scanning almost before the last shot has left the barrel as they really have no context of what they are doing. We really need to assess our target and understand if we achieved the desired results. In other words, one thing at a time. Deal with the known threat first. If it is no longer a threat then we move on. Training skill and experience will dictate much on how quickly this process takes.

Side Stepping or movement (ie. on the draw) - I am a proponent here also but it does not have to happen all the time. Again context is important in how this simple stepping or movement relates to the overall end goal of the initial movement. As has been mentioned the idea is to induce the thought of movement, be it moving to cover, or just not being a static target. Any small bit to perhaps get a leg up in your opponents infamous OODA thingie is a good thingie IMO.

Why do we side step? Well if we start stepping backwards, which is extremely common with non trained shooters, are you doing yourself any favors? Perhaps, moreso maybe when it comes to a blade but if I am pointing a gun at you, going backwards won't make you that much more of a difficult target. What do we also see from new / untrained / non-athletic / overweight / uncoordinated people who start backpedaling in fear because they are having a weapon drawn on them. Yep, flat on their ass.

I like to use sports analogies and how they relate to shooting. A sprinter will practice their starts from launching out of the starting blocks and running a few meters. They do not run the entire 100m as they are practicing their starts. They are training their fast twitch muscles, training body mechanics out of the blocks, footwork etc.... The same can be applied to doing a deliberate side step on the draw. When doing a quick burst side step, which foot is your plant foot and which foot do you step with? Many people don't know which is better if they haven't tried it and practiced it. Practice until the movement becomes as natural as breathing. Of course this initial basic burst or movement is but the starting blocks to the entire 100m sprint, but we can't always or it isn't practical to sprint the entire race. Of course we need to build this movement into effective movement to cover or moving and perhaps shooting on the move, but that doesn't mean we can't get good practice or repetition on the initial burst movement, which is often the most critical. As for training scars, I have yet to see a sprinter come out of the blocks on a real race and just stop running because they incorporated that type of training into their overall regimen. Just like in FoF scenarios, people won't just stop and not take a few more steps to cover, if they have been trained correctly within the right context.

Muzzle Up / Muzzle Down - I have given my opinion on this one in detail in another thread. There are times for muzzle up, times for muzzle down, times for muzzle sideways and times for it anywhere in between. Context of training and understanding when and where things are applicable is key. Now if you only train muzzle up, or muzzle down, then your options are limited. Having more skill and training in more applications, provides more options that can be a huge advantage.



Just to add a few things that were mentioned.

- We use a 35* or so offset on a shooting line when on a flat range. Mostly due to the restrictions that we are asked to follow for those ranges. However we may disregard this rule if there are half the number of safety people in place as those running the drills. In a shoothouse we abide by 1 meter rule. Field of fire will not come closer than 1m to another individual.

- Side stepping and bumping into other shooters is not considered an issue unless if a shooter becomes an issue. Shooters are expected to adjust to bumps and react accordingly with their fire. It can happen in the real world. Muzzle discipline and trigger fingers are key.

- Scan takes on a new meaning when we have gone into a shooting position other than standing. If we go prone, we scan to ensure that we do not stand up into oncoming muzzles and into the line of fire. We do this at each plane of movement all the way up to our feet. We have commands, wait for a reply and a tug, if none, we do a complete scan before self initiation of the movement up. Again this process repeats at each level of movement, ie prone to kneeling, then again from kneeling to standing.

- We may also induce certain "cues" that should be picked up if a student is properly scanning. This helps to keep them honest and not just going through motions.

We should also remember that even pro athletes go through their "kata" at the start of practice or before games. They drill the basics with repetition that they learned from as early as childhood. Just because they are professionals, does not mean that they should not, or no longer practice skills through correct application via high repetition. Shooting and tactics is no different.

[rob_s]

Many may not understand their meaning at face value when just observing, but the importance is the understanding of the student as to the context of the "why" it is being performed and its actual application to various scenario's that they may encounter. I will also say that the professional meat eaters out there are just that, professionals. They may deal with this type of thing on a regular basis and will process and respond much more efficiently than even your average street cop, much less a civilian with only basic CCW training. So we really need to take into account the student and their frame of reference or experience and their time to dedicate towards training.

This is a great point, and it's a drum I've been beating on for a while now. Understanding why someone else does something is key to understanding whether or not it is of value to me.

As an example, take the Chart. Without the Explanation of Features (the WHY) it is frankly useless. Yet if I put both on separate pages and tracked "hits" I bet I'd see that 99% look at the Chart and ignore the E of F entirely.

The head wobble, side-step, various forms of jazz hands, the carbine flippityflip, and a variety of other katas are the Chart. What gets lost for many is the E of F. You can't establish the value of the former without the latter.

In the bigger picture, what I see with all of these things is that the difference between the motions being of value and being worthless is what stage of your consciousness they occupy. Shooting, reloading, malfunction clearances, the draw, the transition to handgun, etc. should all be performed at the subconscious level. Head swivels, side-stepping, and various other things that have fallen to the level of kata for many should always be done at the conscious level. Otherwise it become choreographed (sorry F2S) range shenanigans. Which I think, for me anyway, is the point. I don't want to drill those things into someone's head and subconscious on a static line. I want them to decide that the target needs shooting, then decide that it's had enough, and then decide the appropriate action thereafter.

[SteyrAUG]

Just to add some insight to your topic, at risk of injecting "ninja/samurai crap" while the Wiki definition is correct it misses several points.

Anyone doing any solo drill is essentially doing kata. But in the martial arts kata in the modern sense really isn't kata.

Kata of the past were nothing more than the most important key movements of a given system organized in a logical pattern so that the essence of a given system could be more effectively transmitted from one generation to the next with understandable context. That's it, nothing more.

You could go to Thunder Ranch, Gunsite, etc. and take all of that valuable handling and moving skill and organize it into a logical pattern that is easily remembered and you now have kata.

The problem with the notion of kata, is in the martial arts world kata has been reduced to gymnastic dancing full of ridiculously absurd movements done more for entertainment than for practicing core concepts of attack and defense.

There was a thread here a couple years back showing a California shooting outfit doing some serious John Woo gun kata and it was of course completely absurd.

So the problem isn't the idea of kata, the problem is good vs. bad kata. Any of your top instructors could give you a list of "10 most important things to practice on your own" and could just as easily organize them into a logical, easy to remember drill with an emphasis on correct transition from one concept to the next and suddenly you would have the Vickers or Lamb kata.

This would of course be especially useful for any non shooting practice of positions, presentations and the like. Range time is generally for shooting just as ring time is generally for sparring. Practice done off the range or out of the ring tends to focus on things more suited to kata.

Also it is a futile effort to try and separate combat from combat.

While the application of sword, spear and AR15 obviously are very different, just as they differ greatly from unarmed defense applications, all the supporting and related areas of combat such as combative mindset, situational awareness, strategy and all the other stuff that Cooper and other guys who have actually been in combat think is relevant and important typically have a lot more in common than not.

This is why Sun Tzu is still read at military academies even though the weapons from that time are hardly relevant.

Now does one need a gun kata? No they do not. Quite honestly martial artists have no need for new kata either. The transmission of information problems, and the secretive nature of martial arts from a few centuries ago are hardly a concern and ancient kata (the real ones, not dancing) are mostly done for cultural preservation.

Certainly Kyle Derfoor could probably string together a very useful 90 second drill that covered key points and stressed proper position. And a lot of people would probably find that practiced pattern easy to remember and something they could always incorporate in their personal training.

The problem arises when the pattern become complex enough that it becomes an additional exercise to learn in addition to the key concepts within it. Such a pattern would probably be not nearly as useful.

And the last problem usually associated with kata comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of them. Some see these 80-100 step routines as one long self defense technique where imaginary attackers wait their turn at the proper place and then attack you with the predesignated attack. It should be obvious to anyone that this would never work in the real world and as such genuine kata are not organized according to this notion.

But if a firearm expert develops excessively complex or lengthy patterns of "practiced movements" he can develop conditioned responses that may end up being counter productive. Especially if he is doing things like "cover to cover" movements with imaginary cover and attackers. He is training his body and mind to move "after X amount of time" rather than letting the situation itself dictate the best time and place to move.

While practiced patterns can be extremely useful for learning and practice, and I see many people doing their "draw, stance and presentation" kata, you don't want to become trapped by the pattern itself.

The pattern or skill needs to be learned to the point that it is properly understood and correctly executed. But at some point proficiency allows one to abandon such practiced patterns so that correct technique is done as a conditioned response but the person is free to adapt, modify or improvise new skills based upon his established skill set as the situation demands.

Or in simpler terms, as a wise man once said "practice is practice and shooting is shooting, they only look the same."

[SteyrAUG]

Shooting, reloading, malfunction clearances, the draw, the transition to handgun, etc. should all be performed at the subconscious level.

And you touched it. Those things can be learned independently and on their own and repetitively drilled until they are the same unconscious but complex action as using a key to open your door while you read a newspaper at the same time. The samurai call this "mushin" which means "no mind."

This can be achieved with or without kata. I bet you could come up with an easy to learn 60 second drill that would cover reloads, malfunction clearances, transition to handgun, the draw and presentation."

Then everyone you instruct could learn the same pattern and they could recognize errors they are making by comparing their pattern to those of others who do it correctly. They would also have a memorized pattern that they could do every day that would make all those skills so natural that they now do them at the subconscious level.

Or they could divide their focus on learning each skill independently and attempting to refine it to the same level of proficiency. Which method it the most efficient and useful will depend upon the student and the instructor. Both obviously work.

[Bluedreaux]

Well, I'm late to the party....But my .02...

Shooters will get what they want to out of training. If a shooter wants to go through the motions they're going to do just that. If a shooter wants to visualize threats and make the paper target real they will.

I personally hate it when instructors hold up fingers or colored cards on a scan. They're just teaching the slugs to look at the instructors hands. Nothing more, nothing less.

I don't look for my buddies fingers in my scan at the range. I try to quickly scan a stack of barrels, nearby cars, doorways. Stuff that might be useful to look at during a real scan. I imagine that I'm looking for a specific bad guy, not a colored card that'll never do more than give me a papercut.

Don't teach against kata (or whatever you want to call it). Teach against apathy towards training.

[Jippo]

Thank you SteyrAUG, very well presented thoughts on gun kata. Very well presented.