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Thread: I just saw an EXTREMELY confusing pic....

  1. #11
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    Sticking the CH to the rail is accepting suboptimal employment of the weapon in several aspects for a low probability failure of a tool-dependant fix.
    And yes, one of those aspects is grip and use from cover.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  2. #12
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    huh????

    kenken
    The use of profanity shows a lack of vocabulary. me

    After extensive gunsmithing, my rifle is capable of sub-moa one shot groups all day long. Outstanding accuracy. me

  3. #13
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    I must be dumb or something because I didn't understand one word of that. Either that or I must be a suboptimal low probability failure of a infantryman.
    Last edited by victor3ranger; 07-09-12 at 16:10.

  4. #14
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    In laymans terms, I think F2S is saying he's potentially ****ing himself because that carry handle doesn't belong there.
    Gun and Gear Reviews- www.almosttacticalreviews.com

  5. #15
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    He's saying that the rifle has been hindered for a majority of uses in order simplify the fix of a rarely occurring failure.

    Sort of like carrying a spare tire on a motorcycle.
    Last edited by ThreeFingerPete; 07-09-12 at 16:57.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBTech View Post
    Somewhere there is an "expert" on here screaming at the computer screen, "He's holding his rifle wrong!".
    Why? Perfectly good grip for kneeling position, gives additional point of stability by resting elbow just above the knee.

    And it's not like he is on 3Gun stage or something

    BTW Carry handle mounted under hanguard makes nice makeshift AFG
    Montrala

    I'm sponsored competition shooter representing Heckler&Koch, Kahles, Hornady and Typhoon Defence brands in Poland, so I can be biased

    http://montrala.blogspot.com

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by victor3ranger View Post
    I must be dumb or something because I didn't understand one word of that. Either that or I must be a suboptimal low probability failure of a infantryman.
    suboptimal: less than level expected, desired, or anticipated
    low probability: unlikely, but not impossible
    failure: not working properly, inoperable, not achieving an expected level of performance
    tool dependant: requiring the use of an implement to properly manipulate

    Why is it suboptimal?
    It blocks hand placement and supported position stability and grip. In the pic, the kid looks like he is in the prone (maybe kneeling), so no huge issue on hand placement, just like perfect hand placement in any position during a gunfight is a variable not worth arguing over. However, limiting one's ability to grip the handguard other than directly in front of the magwell (in this case) is a reduction in capability and flexibility. Mounting to the side or fore or aft on the bottom rail poses the same issues.

    The CH could easily be retained somewhere on the carried gear of the user in a readily accessible location and pose none of these issues while being just as handy and better protected.

    Tool dependant?
    The thumb screws on the carry-handle need to be tightened at least 1/4 turn past hand tight to be even closely considered secured under rough conditions. The RCO's TA51 mount is the same, for both security and zero retention. So, to get the RCO off, you need a tool, and to get the CH off, you need a tool, and to put the CH on with an expectation of it retaining zero and staying on the receiver, you need a tool.

    Low probability?
    The likliness of the RCO breaking or being unusable (if properly mounted and maintained), is low. The likliness of the shooter breaking his RCO and having the time to pull out his multi-tool, cut/untie the dummy cords, remove and replace the sighting device is way under that. Don't get me wrong, I believe in having the back up sighting device available, as things do indeed happen, and even a sighting system that can't guarantee return to zero (if the irons were even zeroed) is better than no sighting system.

    So, my point is: why stick the CH to the gun, which negatively affects use, when you could just stick it in a pouch and suffer none of those issues?
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  8. #18
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    Looks like Devil Dogs are trying to make sure they dont lose their carry handles. Not the best way to do it. Can't say that I didn't see some of our guys doing the same thing. Particularly in '04 after we got the first batches of ACOG's showing up. Some people just did not trust the optics enough yet and wanted their irons where they could readily get to them (not being informed or forgetting that the thumbscrews needed to be more than hand tight). F2S - they need you! :-)
    Last edited by Preliator; 07-09-12 at 17:44.
    Terra, obumbravit, Terra malum, Illi qui seminat semina itineris, Quare reum esse?

  9. #19
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    I think that its a good spot to put it. Looks secure and stays with the weapon it belongs to.


    kenken
    The use of profanity shows a lack of vocabulary. me

    After extensive gunsmithing, my rifle is capable of sub-moa one shot groups all day long. Outstanding accuracy. me

  10. #20
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    The amont of gear/ crap people stash, store, hang off of weapons confuses the hell out of me. F2S summed it up perfectly.

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