Recent events and rethinking CCW caliber...

[Reagans Rascals]

The recent events in Colorado have me rethinking my CCW caliber (9mm), and possibly considering switching to a round capable of solid terminal ballistics while also defeating soft armor. To my knowledge, there are only 2 widely available handgun calibers (5.7x28, and .357 SIG) capable of defeating soft armor.

Those with experience, whether its Mil, LEO, or other... please chime in with what caliber you think provides a solid combination of performance for both "stopping power" and armor defeating capability.

The asshole in Colorado was wearing body armor, so it has me thinking that in that situation, had I been there and tried to engage him with my CCW, I would have only succeeded in getting myself killed... thus.... my search for a caliber that may have been beneficial in that type of situation.....

Lets try to stay on topic and not muddy the waters by saying 9mm is fine and I just need to train and train and train to the point where I can just engage them with head shots, because that's not a realistic expectation it that type of situation... it'll be body shots... and body shots against an armored target a good time does not make... unless you have the right caliber...

What calibers provide the best possible results in both engaging armored and non-armored targets.... I understand you cannot have one that does both the best... but I would settle for one that does both well...

this would be for a high-cap semi-auto pistol... not a revolver

5.7x28
.357 SIG
10mm?
commercially available 9mm AP rounds?

[ST911]

Folks who intentionally carry handguns into harm's way and known threats didn't wake up and want to go shopping. What happened in CO isn't anything new or anything that isn't already being experienced by them and others. Not to be mean, but that's a clue.

You're wanting to explore calibers (and then platforms) that offer combinations of greater expense, greater shooter fatigue, greater wear, less sustainability, less size efficiency, and other liabilities. What's not to like?

Further, nothing on your list is going to give me what I would want for a solution to both soft-armored and unarmored threats. No, not even the 5.7.

But if you have to buy something... I would get something in 357SIG. When this new worry has passed you can then drop a 40SW barrel in it and have something more useful.

Eat a delicious meal, hug your family, and go to the range with what you have. It'll pass.

[Reagans Rascals]

Folks who intentionally carry handguns into harm's way and known threats didn't wake up and want to go shopping. What happened in CO isn't anything new or anything that isn't already being experienced by them and others. Not to be mean, but that's a clue.

You're wanting to explore calibers (and then platforms) that offer combinations of greater expense, greater shooter fatigue, greater wear, less sustainability, less size efficiency, and other liabilities. What's not to like?

Further, nothing on your list is going to give me what I would want for a solution to both soft-armored and unarmored threats. No, not even the 5.7.

But if you have to buy something... I would get something in 357SIG. When this new worry has passed you can then drop a 40SW barrel in it and have something more useful.

Eat a delicious meal, hug your family, and go to the range with what you have. It'll pass.

I have a .40 S&W, .45 ACP and a few 9mm's... I'm simply asking what would provide an adequate bridge-gap between regular carry calibers and those with AP capability

I don't think viewing a growing trend in violent altercations as a fad... and I don't consider it paranoia to look at other possible options to try and be the best prepared for the majority of situations I could imagine I'd encounter

[lunchbox]

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...lvic+head+shot

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...lvic+head+shot

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...lvic+head+shot
Just some info that might help
I think shot placement is far more important than cal size. In pretty much every class I've taken, have covered engaging armored targets and armored drills to practice. I'm not muddyn waters, just sayn thump em in the armor a couple times (its gonna slow em down) then quick shot to head as they fall over from double tap to chest armor add in being top heavy.. If nothing else keep shooting in armor till they fall down (whatever cal) walk over stand on their chest and then go for head shot.

[ComradeBoris]

Violence of crime is a growing trend, but consider this:

Using a gun to defend you life or the family's is possibly of no significance statistically. But the cost and perceived threat is grave enough we carry anyway. You want to employ something that is even less likely to happen with the armor theory. Jason Falla said something in his blog that made sense to me, " The decision was made based around vehicle check points and the USMC's desire to have a round that can penetrate auto-glass IOT stop a potential VBIED from entering the check-point! Okay, so what about 90% of the other marines that are facing the enemy in the open?" Although I know the mk318 does well in people too the point is still the same. Mission drives the gear. What is your most likely threat?

I am not trying to be a dick or anything, just give you some food for thought. Kyle Defoor mentions carrying fmj and jhp every other round. If you feel compelled perhaps some thing like that is an option. It would be cheaper than a new gun.

[Chameleox]

Unfortunately, the concept of an armor-blind handgun round with respectable terminal ballistics (a PDW round) has far outpaced the technology and support behind it.

I agree with Skintop, to an extent; practice with what you have, consider and train for an NSR or failure to stop scenario. If you're seriously thinking you're going up against an armored threat, grab a long gun; at present, that seems the best option.

[Microalign]

Not all body armor is created equally, and the .357sig will not penetrate quality soft armor. In many cases, the 5.7mm will not penetrate quality soft armor either. A ceramic chest plate will stop almost all ammo types for calibers up to a .30-06.

[lunchbox]

Violence of crime is a growing trend, but consider this:

Using a gun to defend you life or the family's is possibly of no significance statistically. But the cost and perceived threat is grave enough we carry anyway. You want to employ something that is even less likely to happen with the armor theory. Jason Falla said something in his blog that made sense to me, " The decision was made based around vehicle check points and the USMC's desire to have a round that can penetrate auto-glass IOT stop a potential VBIED from entering the check-point! Okay, so what about 90% of the other marines that are facing the enemy in the open?" Although I know the mk318 does well in people too the point is still the same. Mission drives the gear. What is your most likely threat?

I am not trying to be a dick or anything, just give you some food for thought. Kyle Defoor mentions carrying fmj and jhp every other round. If you feel compelled perhaps some thing like that is an option. It would be cheaper than a new gun.

Please go further into logic behind this setup for defensive situation. I also run what I call a "Party mix" clip, and would like to hear what Defoor says about this; as it relates to subject.

[Curly]

I've thought the issue over more since this shooting took place and have come to the conclusions above; deal with what I have. I really don't think there is any pistol round that is worth looking into more than any other.

As noted above, what if the threat has ceramic plates that can withstand hits from rifles? I could worry myself to death over being confronted with an armored threat...but I can only do so much.

[lunchbox]

Not all body armor is created equally, and the .357sig will not penetrate quality soft armor. In many cases, the 5.7mm will not penetrate quality soft armor either. A ceramic chest plate will stop almost all ammo types for calibers up to a .30-06.

I was not impressed with this round at all. The military with their available ammo selection is a diffferent thing, but for civy use..Meh https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19913