Defensive Pistol FMJ/TMJ Rounds?

[Wake27]

I couldn't find anything on this which makes me think that either I was looking the wrong way or this is a stupid question, but here goes...

Based on the recent shooting blah blah blah, I saw something among everyone questioning their EDC setups. There's plently of caliber discussion around and posts about training being the most important thing - I am trying to stay away from that. However, it was mentioned that Kyle Defoor recommended stacking mags (at least at one point) with alternating round types (JHP, FMJ, JHP, FMJ, etc). This sounds like an interesting idea which lead me to my question. What are some good defensive FMJ rounds? I know Gold Dots are pretty heavily recommended here as JHP, and they're what I carry in my Glock, but if I was to do this, or even if I was just to carry my 1911, what are the quality options I have available? I looked at Doc's sticky but all of those were JHP. Any suggestions?

[MegademiC]

for what caliber? Nato spec 9mm is widely available.

However, what do you foresee a fmj penetrating that a quality jhp will not? Docs recommended loads go through glass, metal, wood, etc and still expand and penetrate sufficiently. FMJs are way more of a liability for the CCW citizen IMO as they will regularly penetrate double what the fbi protocol is IIRC.

God forbid I had to use a gun in public, I - for one - feel people need to error on the side of caution. The last thing you need is to go to jail and live with the fact you killed an innocent - and have the rest of gun owners suffer the additional consequenses.

Maybe if you're surrounded by concrete all day... Im no expert, Defore is so consider that. I'm merely sharing my zero-experience thoughts that I've formed using info and recourses from this sight such as Doc Roberts.

[TXinfidel]

Not to mention the inconsistencies you could encounter. Most quality JHPs can provide close to the same level of penetration with the added benefit of upsetting or deforming and tearing a wider path.

[Grizzly16]

I couldn't find anything on this which makes me think that either I was looking the wrong way or this is a stupid question, but here goes...

Based on the recent shooting blah blah blah, I saw something among everyone questioning their EDC setups. There's plently of caliber discussion around and posts about training being the most important thing - I am trying to stay away from that. However, it was mentioned that Kyle Defoor recommended stacking mags (at least at one point) with alternating round types (JHP, FMJ, JHP, FMJ, etc). This sounds like an interesting idea which lead me to my question. What are some good defensive FMJ rounds? I know Gold Dots are pretty heavily recommended here as JHP, and they're what I carry in my Glock, but if I was to do this, or even if I was just to carry my 1911, what are the quality options I have available? I looked at Doc's sticky but all of those were JHP. Any suggestions?

Here is the thread where Kyle said that. It includes his reasoning and the rounds he carries: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=97663

[Sry0fcr]

No knock on Kyle or the OP, but what problem are we really trying to solve with FMJ that's not being addressed by modern JHP ammunition?

[Wake27]

I know most modern JHP rounds perform as well as FMJ against soft targets. That's been mentioned so many times when it comes to the whole 9mm vs .45 debate. I've done some reading there so I understand all of that. Maybe I missed it though, but are they comparable against harder targets as well?

Here is the thread where Kyle said that. It includes his reasoning and the rounds he carries: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=97663

Thanks, I'll take a look.

[Microalign]

Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn have both said that if you choose to use not expanding ammunition such as FMJ, you should use .45acp. There is no ten commandments on exact hole size needed to prevent tissue from retracting to close back over the bullet hole and reduce blood loss, but there is a consensus from these guys that smaller caliber FMJ holes seem to be less adequate.

[Grizzly16]

I know most modern JHP rounds perform as well as FMJ against soft targets. That's been mentioned so many times when it comes to the whole 9mm vs .45 debate. I've done some reading there so I understand all of that. Maybe I missed it though, but are they comparable against harder targets as well?




Thanks, I'll take a look.

The is your friend.


http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=100152

[wrinkles]

I think many people that post about stacking HPs with FMJ don't know that HPs don't expand until they hit tissue. They think the HP starts to expand as soon as it encounters the barrier. In worst case scenario the HP clogs up and acts like an FMJ.

[grendelbane]

You mentioned TMJ as well as FMJ. My experience with TMJ is that it will not penetrate hard barriers as well as FMJ. The TMJ bullet is relatively soft lead, with a very thin plating of jacket material.

I have seen the aftermath of one shooting with a TMJ bullet where it struck bone and fragmented. In this case, it served well, but I am sure it is not very consistent.

The TMJ offerings do one thing very well. They provide an economical means of practicing. They are best used for this purpose.