Reality Check: Sage M14 at 1000m

[Sgt_Gold]

Asshats know no end to their douchbaggery. I never cease to be amazed at the level of utter crap I hear in gun shop.

Now for some actual 'I saw it' action. I was shooting a high power match and was squaded with an older guy with an M1A. The barrel and gas system assembly was good, but it was sitting in an unbeaded stock. From 600 yards the shooter was either inside the 9 ring, or off the paper because the rifle was shifting in the stock with each shot.

[Iraqgunz]

The guy was full of shit and I would have personally brought his ass to the attention of the ownership. I then would have told him that you have spent xxx money in the past and thanks to Mr. Dumbass you will be spending it elsewhere. If they are happy, so be it.

Even in the USCG the M14 saw very limited if any service. We relied heavily upon the M16 (limited M4's), M60's/M240's and the M2 .50 cal. As a matter of fact almost all CG vessels above 87' are armed with the M2.

[ClearedHot]

Sounds like your typical gun store commando. I bet he'll also tell you the Desert Eagle is the best pistol ever made.

[decodeddiesel]

Sounds like your typical gun store commando. I bet he'll also tell you the Desert Eagle is the best pistol ever made.

Seeing how he was proudly displaying his XDM in a drop leg holster I wouldn't doubt it.

[RogerinTPA]

Heard a real whopper at the local fun store, wanted to make sure I wasn't going crazy.

It all started when I asked to see a SCAR 17S and as the fellow behind the counter handed it to me he threw in an unsolicited "that thing is a piece of shit, and an LRB M14 is way better for the money".

I told him that I had time on an M14 in the Army, and as an NRA High-Power shooter in high school, and that I really thought they were too dated and a dinosaur from what I had seen. I told him the Sage EBR M14 I had in 2005 was not that accurate, heavy as hell, and had reliability problems. He looked at me like I had a dick growing out of my forehead.He then said "Who were you with? What year? What were your AOs?" etc. try to somehow invalidate everything I said. He then claimed that any decent long distance shooter should be able to make repeated hits on a 1/2 size IDPA target at 1000 yards with a rack grade M14 in a Sage EBR with a Leupold M3.

Sounds like a total poser douche bag to me. As far as today's rack grade M14s, it is totally hit or miss, depending on the manufacturer. Maybe 10 to 15 years ago, a rack grade could make reliable hits out to 500 to 600 yards, but not to any acceptable degree of accuracy without the addition of accurate add-on's (good scope, ammo, sling) & of course, the skill of the shooter. I was able to consistently get good hits (9s, 10s and Xs) back in the day using iron sights out to 1000m, because I had many years as both a small and large bore shooter, and my assigned weapon had match grade everything on it, using match ammo, and was purposely built by the Army's USAMU. I purchased a close copy of what I used from Springfield Armory in the early 80's to use for personal practice and hunting. Now that was a damn fine rifle. Not so much today. Too many issues across the board by manufacturers, including finding any quality spare parts. The M-14/M1A day, in any of it's current variations, is well past it's prime, as far as using it as a precision weapon. As many of us know, there are way too many better alternatives out there.

When I mentioned that the longest distance training I had with the weapon was at 800 meters, and even at that range it was damn hard to make hits, this served to incense him further. He then once again questioned me to my face about being a veteran, since clearly I was not familiar with the unmatched awesomeness of the Sage M14. To this I set the 1000 rounds of 5.56 ammo I was planning to buy on the counter and walked out, with him chuckling about it with his buddies and saying "no way he served, dumbass".

Lesson learned, I have spent thousands of dollars at that store, however I will not spend a cent in the future. It really went to hell in the past 3 or 4 years.

Still though, rack grade 1960s surplus M14, stock everything, Sage EBR stock, Leupold M3, accurate to 1000 yards? No f'ing way.

ETA: One other thing that he mentioned was that he was "in" from 1994 - 1997 and that he had "trigger time" on an M14. Who, aside from the Coast Guard and the Navy, was using the M14 to such an extent that an E1 - E4 would have been using it during this time period? My bullshit alarm was going off like crazy when he mentioned that.

He's completely delusional. He was probably some rear echelon support wienie trying to "fluff up" his career via that gun store. I can't stand these self licking ice cream cone, sprinkled with BS types. I wouldn't deal with that D-Bag again, but I'd certainly give the owner an ear full.

[Littlelebowski]

Pat Rogers said that rack grade M14s are 3-6 MOA guns. Let us know what shop this is so that we can avoid it.

[TahoeLT]

^ This. I remember reading that the acceptance standard for the M14 when issued was 6 MOA from the manufacturer. It was not intended to be a precision weapon. Even today when surplus M14s are used as precision weapons, you either forego a bedded action or you lose the ability to take the weapon down for cleaning/ maintenance. Ask the Jordanian SF...

[diving dave]

I love gunshop guys, their comedy relief. When I was buying my scar16S, one of the guys tried telling me that I should buy a Ruger SR556 instead, cause "it's the same thing"...

[Vash1023]

you should print off this thread and drop it off to him... lol

[taliv]

Pat Rogers said that rack grade M14s are 3-6 MOA guns. Let us know what shop this is so that we can avoid it.

he would know. he told me he got his Distinguished Rifleman badge with an M14. doubt it was a rack-grade one though haha. even so, that's impressive, as my own experience with them is limited because i can't stand shooting them. they look nice, but i could never hit anything with them and they're an ergonomic trainwreck