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Thread: ATF 4473 Question

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    ATF 4473 Question

    I own a home in MN and AZ.
    It doesn't appear that a person can have a driver license in more than one state for some reason (based on my Google research) but it does appear that you can have, for example, as MN driver license and an AZ state issues ID card. Would an Arizona ID card be valid ID for completing the ATF 4473 form?

    The reason I ask is because I would like to purchase a suppressor in AZ (not legal in MN) and based on suppressorresearch.com, I need to do a 4473 in addition to Form 4.

    The instructions on form 4473 seem to indicate that is is not a problem. Anyone else done something like this?

    http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

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    I don't recall doing a 4473 for a suppressor and I purchased two of them.



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    My suggestion would be to have your gun shop that you wish to purchase the can from, call their local ATF IOI and see what they have to say about it.

    I know a state issued ID card is sufficient to purchase a firearm if it is issued from the state of residency. The problem being, is that you said you have 2 places where you own property. Owning property doesn't make you a resident. Having a job, titling a vehicle, paying taxes and HAVING A DRIVER'S LICENSE make you a resident. So that may or may not answer your question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tepin View Post
    I own a home in MN and AZ.
    It doesn't appear that a person can have a driver license in more than one state for some reason (based on my Google research) but it does appear that you can have, for example, as MN driver license and an AZ state issues ID card. Would an Arizona ID card be valid ID for completing the ATF 4473 form?

    The reason I ask is because I would like to purchase a suppressor in AZ (not legal in MN) and based on suppressorresearch.com, I need to do a 4473 in addition to Form 4.

    The instructions on form 4473 seem to indicate that is is not a problem. Anyone else done something like this?

    http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf
    That is EXACTLY how Cavalry Arms got put out of business.

    A CA resident with a AZ state ID bought guns at the AZ location, filed out 4473s and passed the NICS check. The guns were never even taken back to CA. But ATF stated that Cavalry Arms sold guns to a CA resident which were illegal in CA.

    I'm not sure if that individual actually had a residence in AZ or not, and in all likelihood was probably a cooperating informant who had got his own as in trouble with ATF and was as a result trying to help ATF land a bigger fish for his own benefit.

    But if it can happen to Cav Arms, it can happen to you. I personally don't see any reason you shouldn't be able to own NFA items at your legal AZ residence, but you want to make really sure.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    I don't recall doing a 4473 for a suppressor and I purchased two of them.

    You always have to do a 4473 for any firearm transfer. You simply don't have to do a NICS check, that is why the 4473 has a box you can check for "No NICS check was required because the transfer involved only NFA firearms."
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

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    Read the fine print on the back of the 4473 form. If you have two residences in two states you are a resident of whichever of those states you are physically in at the time. You just need proof of residency which could be a utility bill, lease, etc. The state issued ID may be sufficient, I don't recall. You should be able to use you MN DL for proof of identity and provide other documentation for proof of residency.
    Last edited by gunnut284; 08-12-12 at 03:01.

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    SteyrAUG

    That was one of Cav Arms issues, but they had many more that in ATF's eyes were much worse. The issues were found during inspections. The person you referenced did not own a home in Az, he was using the address of one of Cav Arms owners and leaving the weapons there.

    As to NICS checks for NFA. They are required if the item was purchased by a Trust, Corp... The NICS check is performed on the person signing for the weapon on behalf of the trust...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    You always have to do a 4473 for any firearm transfer. You simply don't have to do a NICS check, that is why the 4473 has a box you can check for "No NICS check was required because the transfer involved only NFA firearms."
    Supressors aren't firearms though.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    That is EXACTLY how Cavalry Arms got put out of business.

    A CA resident with a AZ state ID bought guns at the AZ location, filed out 4473s and passed the NICS check. The guns were never even taken back to CA. But ATF stated that Cavalry Arms sold guns to a CA resident which were illegal in CA.

    I'm not sure if that individual actually had a residence in AZ or not, and in all likelihood was probably a cooperating informant who had got his own as in trouble with ATF and was as a result trying to help ATF land a bigger fish for his own benefit.

    But if it can happen to Cav Arms, it can happen to you. I personally don't see any reason you shouldn't be able to own NFA items at your legal AZ residence, but you want to make really sure.

    That isn't what happened.

    You can have a state ID card and have property in a free state and purchase firearms in a free state and keep them in that free state, but live in another non-free state.
    Last edited by scottryan; 08-13-12 at 13:15.
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    Quote Originally Posted by az doug View Post
    SteyrAUG

    That was one of Cav Arms issues, but they had many more that in ATF's eyes were much worse. The issues were found during inspections. The person you referenced did not own a home in Az, he was using the address of one of Cav Arms owners and leaving the weapons there.

    As to NICS checks for NFA. They are required if the item was purchased by a Trust, Corp... The NICS check is performed on the person signing for the weapon on behalf of the trust...
    I'm aware of the issues raised during inspections, but they didn't get prosecuted for sloppy paperwork.

    As for the weapons and the CA guy. He had ID and passed his background check. If he didn't have a legal residence in AZ why did he have an ID and why did he pass the check?

    Do you have any idea how common it is for somebody who has dual residency to pay a gun shop to store weapons for them? Nobody wants to buy $10k worth of guns, put them in a house they see on the holidays and then arrive to find out it has been broken into and everything stolen.

    Sounds like the Cav guys offered a customer from CA some really good customer service. I could see IF the guy said he was taking them back to CA where they'd have to refuse the sale but that didn't happen. I could see if the guy failed the NICS check, but that didn't happen.

    He had a valid state ID and passed his NICS check. Agreeing to store weapons for a customer to they don't get stolen from an unattended residence is NOT a crime. Cav Arms took the deal because they knew what they were up against and didn't have the resources to fight it.

    Additionally, IF his state ID had the residence of one of the Cav Arms guys then that was a legal AZ residence (his ID said so) and he actually was storing the weapons at his place. But I don't think that was the address on the state ID.

    Anyone who knows anything about this one knows that it was part of the Fast and Furious witch hunt and they were looking for dealers who were facilitating guns to Mexico. All they found was some lazy paperwork and a guy who had a CA address and obtained a legal AZ state ID so that he could purchase weapons that were legal in that state.

    If he did not have legal AZ residency then the fault lies with the state which issued a valid ID and with NICS who approved the transfers.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

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