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Thread: ATF 4473 Question

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    Supressors aren't firearms though.
    According to ATF they are. Just like a lightning link is considered a machine gun.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    That isn't what happened.

    You can have a state ID card and have property in a free state and purchase firearms in a free state and keep them in that free state, but live in another non-free state.

    I agree, but they still got prosecuted for exactly that.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    According to ATF they are. Just like a lightning link is considered a machine gun.
    Man.. I don't remember doing 4473s on my cans.. but maybe I just forgot.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    I'm aware of the issues raised during inspections, but they didn't get prosecuted for sloppy paperwork.

    As for the weapons and the CA guy. He had ID and passed his background check. If he didn't have a legal residence in AZ why did he have an ID and why did he pass the check?

    Do you have any idea how common it is for somebody who has dual residency to pay a gun shop to store weapons for them? Nobody wants to buy $10k worth of guns, put them in a house they see on the holidays and then arrive to find out it has been broken into and everything stolen.

    Sounds like the Cav guys offered a customer from CA some really good customer service. I could see IF the guy said he was taking them back to CA where they'd have to refuse the sale but that didn't happen. I could see if the guy failed the NICS check, but that didn't happen.

    He had a valid state ID and passed his NICS check. Agreeing to store weapons for a customer to they don't get stolen from an unattended residence is NOT a crime. Cav Arms took the deal because they knew what they were up against and didn't have the resources to fight it.

    Additionally, IF his state ID had the residence of one of the Cav Arms guys then that was a legal AZ residence (his ID said so) and he actually was storing the weapons at his place. But I don't think that was the address on the state ID.

    Anyone who knows anything about this one knows that it was part of the Fast and Furious witch hunt and they were looking for dealers who were facilitating guns to Mexico. All they found was some lazy paperwork and a guy who had a CA address and obtained a legal AZ state ID so that he could purchase weapons that were legal in that state.

    If he did not have legal AZ residency then the fault lies with the state which issued a valid ID and with NICS who approved the transfers.

    The cav arms deal was set up so the guy from CA could buy weapons that were not legal in CA. He has no legitimate reason to be in AZ other than to buy weapons.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    I agree, but they still got prosecuted for exactly that.

    There are several people that buy NFA all the time that keep them at out of state homes because they live in a non free state.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  6. #16
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    Thanks for all the replies.
    According to this DOC a suppressor goes on the 4473 after all NFA approvals + stamp (right before walking out the door).

    It isnt a firearm but likely looked at the same as a stripped AR lower... goes on the 4473 as "Other".

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by tepin View Post
    Thanks for all the replies.
    According to this DOC a suppressor goes on the 4473 after all NFA approvals + stamp (right before walking out the door).

    It isnt a firearm but likely looked at the same as a stripped AR lower... goes on the 4473 as "Other".
    Wow. I'd have lost that bet for sure. Of course... the dealer that Gunz and I used is in jail now... so maybe we DIDN'T do the 4473!!
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    There are several people that buy NFA all the time that keep them at out of state homes because they live in a non free state.

    You are correct.

    But every since the Cav Arms thing I've been concerned. If it could happen then, it could happen to anyone.

    My original post wasn't to be the "that gun isn't 922r compliant" guy who goes around the internet acting as a volunteer ATF compliance officer, I was simply saying "be careful, make sure."

    To this day I'm still amazed at how the whole Cav Arms thing went down. Real wake up call for me.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by tepin View Post
    Thanks for all the replies.
    According to this DOC a suppressor goes on the 4473 after all NFA approvals + stamp (right before walking out the door).

    It isnt a firearm but likely looked at the same as a stripped AR lower... goes on the 4473 as "Other".

    BOTH are defined as firearms.

    http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...-chapter-2.pdf


    CHAPTER 2. WHAT ARE “FIREARMS” UNDER THE NFA?

    2.1.7 Silencer. A firearm silencer and a firearm muffler are defined as any device for silencing,
    muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm.18 Firearm silencers are generally composed of
    an outer tube, internal baffles, a front end cap, and a rear end cap
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    I'm aware of the issues raised during inspections, but they didn't get prosecuted for sloppy paperwork.
    ...
    It wasn't merely paperwork issues that were found during the inspections.

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