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Thread: 10.5" Issues

  1. #1
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    10.5" Issues

    So I'm having some problems with my Noveske 10.5" that I can't figure out. Most of them come when suppressed with my M4-2K.

    The build pieces that might be contributing to the issues:
    Noveske 10.5"
    Geissele S3G
    Core15 NiB BCG
    Only ammo I've ran through it so far is American Eagle (red box, 30rds to a box on strippers) and Hornady 55gr FMJ/BT.

    When I first got it, it would sometimes fail to go into battery with or without the suppressor. It would fire then the next round would chamber up to about the shoulder of the casing. This would happen maybe once every 20-30 rounds. This was running an H2 buffer.

    I tried using a H buffer and the gun still wouldn't go into battery sometimes but the bolt would close much farther (I couldn't see brass whereas before I could). I'd basically just have to tap the forward assist to get it to lock up. This was still suppressed or unsuppressed. However, now the gun would sometimes double when firing suppressed.

    Today I went out and tried a H3 buffer and the H2 again. Unsuppressed, the gun ran great today; no issues with chambering and the brass was ejecting at a nice 3:00-3:30 position. However, when I put the suppressor on, the gun would fire and then fail to reset the trigger. It would pick up a new round and chamber just fine but the trigger wouldn't reset. This was with the H3 buffer and only happened suppressed. I took the magazine out and loaded one round at a time for 5 rounds and the rifle locked the bolt back every time. I'd load up 5 and it would fail to reset again every 2-3 rounds.

    I swapped out the H3 for the H2 again and had the same issues as before (fail to go completely into battery and firing doubles every now and then).

    So....I'm not sure where to start trouble shooting. Do you guys think there's an issue with the NiB BCG? I have the original one from Noveske that I haven't tried yet. I could throw that in there. I think my biggest concern was the occasional doubling. I did some research when this happened the first time and a few people said it was unintentional bump fire with the lite trigger and short reset. Today I was very deliberate in holding the trigger back after firing and then resetting it. It still doubled; I'm confident I wasn't bump firing.

    Anyway, any help/ideas you guys could throw my way would be appreciated.

    TLDR:
    -10.5" Won't go into battery, won't reset trigger, and fires doubles. Both suppressed and unsuppressed.
    -Tried H, H2, H3 buffers


  2. #2
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    I'd suggest using a different BCG, the NiB carriers are larger than a normal carrier and hence, "out of spec" or too big.

    Obviously plenty of other people have success with them, but it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

    get a bravo company carrier, some synthetic motor oil, and dump it in there.

  3. #3
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    1. Try a different trigger.

    2. I would also try a carbine buffer as well.

    3. I would try the original BCG as well.

    4. I would also try other ammo.

    Remember when troubleshooting you want to isolate all the issues. That means start with the obvious and work around. Do not change everything and then test it, because then you will be right back where you started. Bring the items with you to a place where you can shoot and then test it after swapping each item out.



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  4. #4
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    The trigger issues you are talking about is a issue that seems to show up with the S3G trigger. I have two of them and it is not doubling it is bump firing. The reset on the trigger is so short that if the rifle is not shoulder properly/ snugly it will bump fire. I have experienced it mostly shooting prone while taking precision shots that I wanted as little of me affecting the gun and in unconventional positions that don't allow me to get the rifle shouldered firmly. Geiselle will send you a heavier trigger spring if you call them that will help also.

    As IG said you keep trying the same things and aren't getting the changes you want. You have to try different things. You tried heavier buffers, so there is only one other option. Try lighter. My 10.5 has run suppressed and unsuppressed with carbine and H1 buffers without issues, so you might try that.

    Matt

  5. #5
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    I have an LMT 10.5" and had a Noveske 10.5". I run/ran them suppressed quite a bit and typically with 855or 193 and occasionally with TAP and TSX. My LMT runs well with an H or H2 buffer and the Noveske better with the H2. But, the Noveske seemed more finicky when suppressed, possibly due to the slightly larger gas port, but I really shouldn't speculate.

    Now, I noticed both were much more consistent with ammo (very rarely I'd run Wolf or Brown Bear) and whether it was suppressed or not when I switched the receiver extension the the Vltor A5. I would typically always have a new carbine action spring and a second buffer in my bag with these uppers. With the A5, I don't worry about it and the rifle action spring lasts a good bit longer.

    I'm not telling you to run out and buy the A5, but it did make my 10.5" uppers as reliable as my 14.5" and 16" rifles and also made it feel more consistent. With the carbine RE, I often felt that I was on the edge of failure when I changed any one thing, but with the A5, it always feels strong and consistent.

    I wish I could diagnose your problem, but without seeing the rifle and testing one thing at a time as IG said, I really don't know. Good luck man.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~ Paul Howe

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the suggestions gentlemen. I'm going to the range again in the morning to see if I can troubleshoot this a bit more. I'll try swapping out the BCG first and also bring along the regular trigger; try and narrow it down one thing at a time as IG said.

    Can anybody explain to me/speculate why the gun would (seemingly) run well with the H3 buffer unsuppressed and then choke when adding the M4-2K? How could it fire and completely chamber the next round but not reset the trigger? Just trying to understand/learn.

    Quote Originally Posted by glockshooter View Post
    The trigger issues you are talking about is a issue that seems to show up with the S3G trigger. I have two of them and it is not doubling it is bump firing. *snip*
    As I said, I read about this before and I was very deliberate in pulling the trigger and holding then resetting. I'm pretty confident I was not unintentionally bump firing but, maybe I got lax during a string of fire. During this last range trip though, I remember thinking "Ok well I guess that eliminates bump firing" when it happened. I was being very conscientious with my trigger pull.

    Also, I've never had the gun double/bump fire unsuppressed. The only time it's ever happened (4 or 5 times) has been with my M4-2K attached. I don't understand that either unless I really am bump firing and it's just been coincidence that I was firing suppressed.

  7. #7
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    My money is on the BCG being the culprit. Everything from not going into battery to the trigger not re-setting, to the doubling all link back to one common part: The BCG.

    I'll bet if you throw the Noveske back in there, your problems go away.
    Last edited by ASH556; 08-20-12 at 12:36.
    Semper Paratus Certified AR15 Armorer

  8. #8
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    What action spring?

    What extractor spring? With O-ring?


    It sounds like you are allowing the gun to bump fire, and it's easier with that specific trigger. This would be the doubling and what you describe as the hammer not resetting. What I suspect is is happening is the hammer is being released before the bolt is in battery so the firing pin does not contact the primer.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASH556 View Post
    My money is on the BCG being the culprit. Everything from not going into battery to the trigger not re-setting, to the doubling all link back to one common part: The BCG.

    I'll bet if you throw the Noveske back in there, your problems go away.
    That was my first thought too. Interested to see how this plays out and what ends up being the culprit.

  10. #10
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    Well you guys that said it was the BCG were right.

    I went to the range today after throwing in the Noveske BCG and the gun ran like a champ both suppressed and unsuppressed. I only had time to burn 100 rounds but I didn't have a single problem, whereas before I couldn't get through a 20rd mag without one or two issues.

    I did not try running the other bolt in the Noveske carrier or vice versa (mostly because I was pressed for time). So I'm still not sure what's out of spec but I'll contact Core15 and see if they want it back to inspect or something. I've read that they have some pretty good customer service.

    Anyway, hopefully this was truly the problem and I can get on with enjoying my rifle. Thanks to everyone for the help/suggestions.

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