View Poll Results: Would You Pay For An AR15 Armorer Course?

Voters
383. You may not vote on this poll
  • No. There is no need for civilians to learn this.

    7 1.83%
  • No. I would rather spend the money on accessories.

    9 2.35%
  • Yes, but it depends on cost and location.

    343 89.56%
  • Yes, I would no matter what.

    24 6.27%
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Thread: Would You Pay For An AR15/M16/M4 Armorer Course?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK18Pilot View Post
    The 5/64 punch is hard to find and the one sold by Brownells is junk. It will bend when used on a rifle that has been well used.
    I have one of those bent suckers in my shoe box of AR tools!
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  2. #102
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    Why should other companies be able to dictate what another teaches? This class is designed for those who can't attend the others. I am not teaching Colts curriculum nor do I care what they think. I recently sat through my 4thAAC recert through Colt and it was terrible. The instructor was still telling people to stagger gas rings and to use light lube on the BCG.


    Quote Originally Posted by Phila PD View Post
    Please don't take this as Phila PD is trying to be a jerk off and is flaming Iraqgunz but I think I have a valid question which can affect many who wish to obtain "Certification" on the AR platform thur one of Iraqgunz courses.

    Iraqgunz after reading your posted statement of,

    Instructor Bio: This course will be taught by a veteran of both the U.S Army and U.S Coast Guard who has over 20 years of experience using the AR15 family of weapons. Having completed a deployment to the Middle East in support of operations Iraqi and Enduring Freedom in 2005, he entered into the private sector working in Iraq and Afghanistan as an armorer/ instructor for several large private military companies supporting the Department of Defense and the Department of State. He has attended and completed numerous factory armorer courses from such companies as Beretta, Barrett, Colt, Dillon Aero, FNHUSA, Glock, Knights’ Armament, Remington, and SigSauer

    I have to ask does any manufacturer such as Colt, FN, SigSauer, etc. recognize and authorize you or your company to conduct armors courses and provide official certification in their names once the course is successfully completed?

    Without such factory/manufacturer authorization then any certification you offered would not be "Official" and rejected by any reputable employer for those students seeking official accreditation for employment purposes.

    While I hold several factory trained armorers certifications none allow me to teach and provide certification in the manufacturers name.

    So in closing what weight would a "Certification" issued by your course hold if measured against factory/manufacturer certification?



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/

    Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

  3. #103
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    Gunz, e-mail sent for McDonough enrollment.
    Semper Paratus Certified AR15 Armorer

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    That's union thuggery and intimidation, Jack! Votes should be private.

  5. #105
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    Nothing yet make sure you click on send me an email.

    Quote Originally Posted by ASH556 View Post
    Gunz, e-mail sent for McDonough enrollment.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/

    Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Nothing yet make sure you click on send me an email.
    Hmmm, mail client shows sent @ 10:38AM EST. Maybe caught in spam filter? I just re-sent through site e-mail function.
    Semper Paratus Certified AR15 Armorer

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phila PD View Post
    Please don't take this as Phila PD is trying to be a jerk off and is flaming Iraqgunz but I think I have a valid question which can affect many who wish to obtain "Certification" on the AR platform thur one of Iraqgunz courses.

    Iraqgunz after reading your posted statement of,

    Instructor Bio: This course will be taught by a veteran of both the U.S Army and U.S Coast Guard who has over 20 years of experience using the AR15 family of weapons. Having completed a deployment to the Middle East in support of operations Iraqi and Enduring Freedom in 2005, he entered into the private sector working in Iraq and Afghanistan as an armorer/ instructor for several large private military companies supporting the Department of Defense and the Department of State. He has attended and completed numerous factory armorer courses from such companies as Beretta, Barrett, Colt, Dillon Aero, FNHUSA, Glock, Knights’ Armament, Remington, and SigSauer

    I have to ask does any manufacturer such as Colt, FN, SigSauer, etc. recognize and authorize you or your company to conduct armors courses and provide official certification in their names once the course is successfully completed?

    Without such factory/manufacturer authorization then any certification you offered would not be "Official" and rejected by any reputable employer for those students seeking official accreditation for employment purposes.

    While I hold several factory trained armorers certifications none allow me to teach and provide certification in the manufacturers name.

    So in closing what weight would a "Certification" issued by your course hold if measured against factory/manufacturer certification?
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Why should other companies be able to dictate what another teaches? This class is designed for those who can't attend the others. I am not teaching Colts curriculum nor do I care what they think. I recently sat through my 4thAAC recert through Colt and it was terrible. The instructor was still telling people to stagger gas rings and to use light lube on the BCG.

    But the question still stands as to what merit your "Certification" has in the real world for those who wish to use it as a form of "Official" training/certification for professional reasons such as working for a manufacturer as one member stated or repairing L/E rifles in a armory as another suggested.

    There is a reason why AR manufactures usually have authorized factory certified persons training new armorers for the reason of liability.

    For example if I repair a Colt AR according to Colts procedures and the rifle takes a shit and some one is injured I can show in a court if I was arrested or sued that I was trained by a certified Colt AR armorer who was authorized to train me. I used prudent care and caution as directed and taught by Colt and as long as I did not do some thing stupid procedure wise I would most likely prevail.

    On the other hand I have a certification from a secondary individual who is not authorized to train me in the repair of any manufacture of AR rifle and the same situation occurs and I end up in court. I subpoena my trainer to court and if he showed most likely would be chewed apart on the stand as the prosecution would most certainly use Official Colt AR armorer trainers to state my secondary certification is worthless in their eyes and my trainer was not authorized to certify me. I can see a very bad out come for me if I were to go this route.

    Iraqgunz I have said in the past that I have absolutely "NO" issue with you personally but the folks who are going to pay $400.00 for a certification course should known that the certificate they will receive would be more symbolic in nature then official.
    We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts.

  8. #108
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    I have a certification from Sionics. Is it any any different than a Bushmaster cert? What about the class that Dean Caputo or others teach?

    Let me also ad this. I never claimed that anyone will get a job or otherwise. I am simply offering a course which most civilians cannot attend, which is no different than attending some HSLD shooting class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phila PD View Post
    But the question still stands as to what merit your "Certification" has in the real world for those who wish to use it as a form of "Official" training/certification for professional reasons such as working for a manufacturer as one member stated or repairing L/E rifles in a armory as another suggested.

    There is a reason why AR manufactures usually have authorized factory certified persons training new armorers for the reason of liability.

    For example if I repair a Colt AR according to Colts procedures and the rifle takes a shit and some one is injured I can show in a court if I was arrested or sued that I was trained by a certified Colt AR armorer who was authorized to train me. I used prudent care and caution as directed and taught by Colt and as long as I did not do some thing stupid procedure wise I would most likely prevail.

    On the other hand I have a certification from a secondary individual who is not authorized to train me in the repair of any manufacture of AR rifle and the same situation occurs and I end up in court. I subpoena my trainer to court and if he showed most likely would be chewed apart on the stand as the prosecution would most certainly use Official Colt AR armorer trainers to state my secondary certification is worthless in their eyes and my trainer was not authorized to certify me. I can see a very bad out come for me if I were to go this route.

    Iraqgunz I have said in the past that I have absolutely "NO" issue with you personally but the folks who are going to pay $400.00 for a certification course should known that the certificate they will receive would be more symbolic in nature then official.



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/

    Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phila PD View Post
    But the question still stands as to what merit your "Certification" has in the real world for those who wish to use it as a form of "Official" training/certification for professional reasons such as working for a manufacturer as one member stated or repairing L/E rifles in a armory as another suggested.

    There is a reason why AR manufactures usually have authorized factory certified persons training new armorers for the reason of liability.

    For example if I repair a Colt AR according to Colts procedures and the rifle takes a shit and some one is injured I can show in a court if I was arrested or sued that I was trained by a certified Colt AR armorer who was authorized to train me. I used prudent care and caution as directed and taught by Colt and as long as I did not do some thing stupid procedure wise I would most likely prevail.

    On the other hand I have a certification from a secondary individual who is not authorized to train me in the repair of any manufacture of AR rifle and the same situation occurs and I end up in court. I subpoena my trainer to court and if he showed most likely would be chewed apart on the stand as the prosecution would most certainly use Official Colt AR armorer trainers to state my secondary certification is worthless in their eyes and my trainer was not authorized to certify me. I can see a very bad out come for me if I were to go this route.

    Iraqgunz I have said in the past that I have absolutely "NO" issue with you personally but the folks who are going to pay $400.00 for a certification course should known that the certificate they will receive would be more symbolic in nature then official.
    I understand what you are saying but think it is over reacting to think that you must have every manufacturers stamp of approval before replacing items on a run of the mill AR of some type. At our agency we've got Colt, RRA's, and Bushmasters that are department owned and issued. Individually owned AR's include Noveske, BCM, Ranier Arms, and Daniel Defense. I do about 95% of the work that has to be done to them, which really isn't too much on a yearly basis. Is it realistic to think that I need 6-8 certs to replace gas rings, a BCG, FCG, or barrel?
    "The peace we have within us is most often expressed in how we treat others"

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    I have a certification from Sionics. Is it any any different than a Bushmaster cert? What about the class that Dean Caputo or others teach?

    Let me also ad this. I never claimed that anyone will get a job or otherwise. I am simply offering a course which most civilians cannot attend, which is no different than attending some HSLD shooting class.
    Iraqgunz

    I think its great that your offering a fee based service to show interested persons who may not be able to attend a certified instructional course the In's and outs of the basic AR rifle. I was only asking what accreditation a attendee would receive once the course was completed.

    So from your response one would receive a certificate of completion for the course but it would not be recognized by any of the major AR manufacturers.

    Basically a personal information/consumption type of course.

    Thanks for the information.
    Last edited by PA PATRIOT; 08-23-12 at 22:58.
    We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts.

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