Stag Model 3

[VIP3R 237]

NO NO NO!!!! Put the $350 in ammo and go shooting

Exactly. Dont blow the saved money on tacticool shit.

[Hydguy]

I'm kinda glad I didn't pay $1,100 for a Colt or BCM. The money ($350) I saved can put in my Stag, IMO I'll have a lot nicer rifle then either of them are right of the shelf

Thanks a lot, that link covered everything I was looking for.

No, the $350 you saved cannot be spent making your rifle 'a lot nicer'. It can be spent on the way, but you will still have to spend more.

Unless you have all the tools to do a barrel swap you come out far behind in cost to make something close to equivalent.
A good torque wench alone is at a minimum half the cost of what you saved, then the barrel, buffer, barrel wrench, and so on and so forth.
Or you can pay someone else to do all that, and still end up spending more than the $350.

That said, Stag is owned by CMT, who makes forgings for Colt, and just about everyone else, as there are only a few companies that make them. So the lower and upper SHOULD be perfectly mil-spec, but I have no idea if they use a commercial or mil-spec buffer tube, stock and so on. We know the barrel isn't mil-spec, but what else isn't? All that stuff adds up..

And as long as you have the Stag Arms lower, you will always have stupid roll mark, and we all know that a cool roll mark is what really matters...

[polymorpheous]

No, the $350 you saved cannot be spent making your rifle 'a lot nicer'. It can be spent on the way, but you will still have to spend more.

Unless you have all the tools to do a barrel swap you come out far behind in cost to make something close to equivalent.
A good torque wench alone is at a minimum half the cost of what you saved, then the barrel, buffer, barrel wrench, and so on and so forth.
Or you can pay someone else to do all that, and still end up spending more than the $350.

That said, Stag is owned by CMT, who makes forgings for Colt, and just about everyone else, as there are only a few companies that make them. So the lower and upper SHOULD be perfectly mil-spec, but I have no idea if they use a commercial or mil-spec buffer tube, stock and so on. We know the barrel isn't mil-spec, but what else isn't? All that stuff adds up..

And as long as you have the Stag Arms lower, you will always have stupid roll mark, and we all know that a cool roll mark is what really matters...

Please list your source that CMT makes raw forgings for Colt, or at all for that matter.

[jonconsiglio]

Please list your source that CMT makes raw forgings for Colt, or at all for that matter.

Thats the first I've heard anyone state that. I knew the Noveske/CMT thing, but I've never heard the Colt stuff.

[polymorpheous]

As far as I know, CMT does not manufacture raw forgings.

I know Colt machines their own uppers and lowers from forgings.
I have a Colt upper with a Cerro forge mark.

[dangertree]

Right, but it does make the rifle over gassed. The problem is, moat people don't even know what this means. Again, the typical Stag buyer, from what I've seen, isn't buying it as a duty rifle or even advanced training, they're usually buying it for plinking now and then. That's fine with me.

If the buffer is too light for a particular batch of ammunition, and the gas port is .625", then technically the ammo has made the rifle overgassed, (if I'm following along correctly, in my books a rifle that is cycling properly and ejecting at 2-5 oclock is operating correctly?)
The question is, is the gas port .625 or not? I have not seen a Stag 14.5" or 16" that was not.

Our experience differs on who we see as the typical Stag user. In Canada (where I am), Stag Arms have been selling their LE/GOV line since 2005, similar to what is now the Plus Package in the USA, 4150, 1/7, and competes vs Colt Canada for LE contracts, and sells guns. I do suspect they did not have dance around the M4/AR15 line for export rifles. I know that they are listed as 'in use by CF/NATO forces' and are thus eligible to compete for almost any LE/GOV contract up here. Colt Canada, Colt USA, HK and FN pretty much round out that list.

I shoot. I have 23 years of living with the "C7 FOW", how much that matter, I really don't know. Less than many, more than some? I know what makes an AR go and stop. I know good parts, and I know shit parts. I read reports. Stag Arms (CMT), in my experience, makes good parts that go together well and last as long as anything.

I have had to assemble guns privately using some other brands, and have had to put parts on the lathe to fit them. This does not happen with Colt or Stag parts.

I do keep in touch with shooters across the country in CIV, MIL and LE circles. I can say that lots of shooting instructors use Stag Arms carbines with very high round counts. Lots of their students are shooting Stag Arms and specifically NOT having failures. Lots of Stag Arms shooters winning Service Rifle matches with 20" Govt Profile Stag Arms (some on C7 lowers), again, high round counts. Police Depts that interchange supressed 10" C8CQB and Stag Arms Mk18 10.3" on Entry teams, etc. LE Patrol Rifles. Lefties in CF useage. Lots of serious civilian shooters no doubt, and CF members buying personal firearms for personal use, but probably as much LE/Gov use as not.

That is the Stag Arms I know. I guess I see a disconnect from what I see and hear from shooters of these firearms and what I see and read on this site.

To failures, I know of one batch of disconnects (10) recalled by the manufacturer. Stag Arms have been, and are seen as extremely reliable.

To why Stag Arms, personally. I like who they are. I like how they handle themselves. Good guns. Consistently great parts. Their own parts = accountability. No bullshit. Long M16 manufacturing history. The American Dream. They don't bang their own drum nearly as much as they could.

I wonder if their position as a branded manufacturer and an OEM parts manufacturer puts them in a unique position? Not sure. I do know that many brands promoted here also use their parts. I don't get the argument/ suggested explanation that maybe they would sell themselves bad parts, thus being cheaper, (vs being cheaper because they themselves are the massive OEM manufacturer perhaps?) Never seen any evidence of this, and why would they anyway?

My 9c at this point.

All the best.

[dangertree]

As far as I know, CMT does not manufacture raw forgings.

I know Colt machines their own uppers and lowers from forgings.
I have a Colt upper with a Cerro forge mark.

No one that cuts AR15 parts makes their own forgings in house. They are not aluminum forges. Colt buys their 7075-T6 forged receivers from forge houses, like Cerro, and others. They have the forgings manufactured with their own C mark. It is otherwise not a different part from any other forging Cerro (or others) sell to anyone. It is the cutting of that forging that counts.

[Iraqgunz]

Enough of the Stag Wars saga. Their reputation is well known and if you feel well served by your Stag then rock on.