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Thread: Help me select my first SBR

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koshinn View Post
    But if you have a sbr upper, a rifle lower, and no registered sbr lower, you are in constructive possession of an NFA firearm, regardless if they are attached and if they're in separate locations but still under your control (car trunk and in the house for example).
    That's an interesting outlook but i disagree. The ruling against the BATF in United States v. Thompson-Center Arms Company sets somewhat of a precedence.

    If someone were to own a fully assembled lower receiver with a rifle stock, and a complete SBR upper, without a stamp, it seems that you could be considered to be in constructive possession of an NFA firearm.

    Simply owning a stripped lower receiver, and a complete SBR upper does not appear to violate any existing laws, even if you're the owner of other complete AR15's. They would be hard pressed to prove constructive intent, unless you've really done something else wrong, in which case, good luck to you!
    Last edited by flynnstone; 08-29-12 at 18:52.

  2. #22
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    To clear up any confusion on "constructive possession" and the belief that there is no such thing. There is established case law.

    In United States v. Thompson/Center Arms Company, 504 U.S. 505 (1992), the United States Supreme Court examined whether a short-barreled rifle was “made” under the NFA when a carbine-conversion kit consisting of a single-shot “Contender” pistol was designed so that its handle and barrel could be removed from its receiver, and was packaged with a 21-inch barrel, a rifle stock, and a wooden fore-end. The Court held that, where aggregated parts could convert a pistol into either a regulated short-barreled rifle, or an unregulated rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length, the NFA was ambiguous and applied the “rule of lenity” (i.e., ambiguities in criminal statutes should be resolved in favor of the defendant) so that the pistol and carbine kit, when packaged together, were not considered a “short-barreled rifle” for purposes of the NFA.

    However, the Court also explained that an NFA firearm is made if aggregated parts are in close proximity such that they: (a) serve no useful purpose other than to make an NFA firearm (e.g., a receiver, an attachable shoulder stock, and a short barrel); or (b) convert a complete weapon into an NFA firearm (e.g., a pistol and attachable shoulder stock, or a long-barreled rifle and attachable short barrel). Id. at 511-13.

    ATF SBR Ruling 2011-4
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  3. #23
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    Maybe you should read more and post less. Most all of us are well aware of that one single case. As it has been discussed numerous times before.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmortalArms View Post
    To clear up any confusion on "constructive possession" and the belief that there is no such thing. There is established case law.

    In United States v. Thompson/Center Arms Company, 504 U.S. 505 (1992), the United States Supreme Court examined whether a short-barreled rifle was “made” under the NFA when a carbine-conversion kit consisting of a single-shot “Contender” pistol was designed so that its handle and barrel could be removed from its receiver, and was packaged with a 21-inch barrel, a rifle stock, and a wooden fore-end. The Court held that, where aggregated parts could convert a pistol into either a regulated short-barreled rifle, or an unregulated rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length, the NFA was ambiguous and applied the “rule of lenity” (i.e., ambiguities in criminal statutes should be resolved in favor of the defendant) so that the pistol and carbine kit, when packaged together, were not considered a “short-barreled rifle” for purposes of the NFA.

    However, the Court also explained that an NFA firearm is made if aggregated parts are in close proximity such that they: (a) serve no useful purpose other than to make an NFA firearm (e.g., a receiver, an attachable shoulder stock, and a short barrel); or (b) convert a complete weapon into an NFA firearm (e.g., a pistol and attachable shoulder stock, or a long-barreled rifle and attachable short barrel). Id. at 511-13.

    ATF SBR Ruling 2011-4



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  4. #24
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    The wonderful thing about living in Amerika is we can all disagree.

    What if I had a lower fully assembled, with no buttstocK? I could easily claim that I have an AR pistol.

    But, then again I won't be doing anything that will have the BATFE knocking on my door either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koshinn View Post
    It's actually "constructive possession" which is a solid legal principle. But unless you're bring raided for another reason, the atf will never check on you. You'd probably be able to get away with an unregistered SBR for your entire life too, even though you'd be committing a federal felony the entire time. But don't do that, you don't want to be caught at a range and lose your fire arm rights for the rest of your life and go to jail. There's a difference between "illegal" and "likely to be caught." Both constructive and actual possession of an unregistered sbr are illegal, but one is harder to catch.

    But if you have a sbr upper, a rifle lower, and no registered sbr lower, you are in constructive possession of an NFA firearm, regardless if they are attached and if they're in separate locations but still under your control (car trunk and in the house for example).



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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    But, then again I won't be doing anything that will have the BATFE knocking on my door either.
    You're never home anyway!
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  6. #26
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    What if you have a complete rifle and an sbr upper but no spare lower? That is to say you have two uppers and one lower where the full length rifle upper is attached to the rifle lower?

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  7. #27
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    Attachment 13414

    I'M NOT ALWAYS AT HOME, BUT WHEN I AM I DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE BATFE.


    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    You're never home anyway!



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  8. #28
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    Haha, that's hilarious!

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