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Thread: M4A1 as Standard Issue

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mace2364 View Post
    Fortunately, I don't do that full time anymore. But having turned down a few barrels, that 4 oz feels a lot more when it's on the barrel. Pick up an A1 profile barrel, and you'll see what I mean. I have had some of my buddies handle my A1 clone and when my 20" rifle weighs less than their 16" carbines(without accessories) they take notice. Lightweight was the whole advantage of the M16 to begin with.
    In the case of the SOCOM barrel, that 4 ounces of weight is back near the chamber end of the barrel. That makes a big difference, if you're comparing it to a standard profile barrel of the same length. If it were out nearer to the muzzle, with leverage and the inertial force fighting moving it around, it might be significant, but the SOCOM barrel doesn't exhibit that problem.

    Also note, for the M4A1, it's a 14.5" barrel, so balance is quite different from a 20" rifle configuration.
    Last edited by everyusernametaken; 09-12-12 at 19:39.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    M855 is no longer being used, M855A1 is now the standard round and is I believe a 1.5MOA round.
    Yeah, until it goes into full production. Do you really think they'll be able to consistently produce lots of M855A1 that shoot like match ammo?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    Yeah, until it goes into full production. Do you really think they'll be able to consistently produce lots of M855A1 that shoot like match ammo?



    Yeah, it's already been around for a while. I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes or at what percentage of production capacity they are - although I assume they're at "full production" already, if that phrase even means anything in this context.

    All I know is that in reality and in practice it's not 1.5 MOA ammunition. While I believe 5.5 MOA is the maximum accepted standard, in practice I've found it to be somewhat better. It's between 2 and 4 MOA depending on what lot it comes out of, and they are not consistent. They can't even get M118LR right; does anybody think the M855A1 will be consistently accurate? Refer to Oprah.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by a0cake View Post


    Yeah, it's already been around for a while. I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes or at what percentage of production capacity they are - although I assume they're at "full production" already, if that phrase even means anything in this context.

    All I know is that in reality and in practice it's not 1.5 MOA ammunition. While I believe 5.5 MOA is the maximum accepted standard, in practice I've found it to be somewhat better. It's between 2 and 4 MOA depending on what lot it comes out of, and they are not consistent. They can't even get M118LR right; does anybody think the M855A1 will be consistently accurate? Refer to Oprah.
    I'm not sure, I know the few people who I talk to who use it are getting 1.5-2moa who are good shots but know telling how long that will last.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post

    M855A1 is definitely more accurate than recent M855, about par with Mk318 and 70 gr Optimal “browntip”, while less accurate than Mk262. Current M855A1 is shooting about 2 MOA––however these are projectiles built on the old inefficient, more costly BAM. IF M855A1 is ever able to be successfully built on SCAMP, then who knows where accuracy will be. Unfortunately, since the contract allows 5.5 MOA, eventually lots will be accepted with reduced accuracy, exactly as occurred with M855 “greentip” and M118LR produced following the post 9/11 ramp up in ammo production and concomitant need to relax accuracy requirements to reduce the number of rejected lots…
    By full production I mean production in SCAMP machinery. I do not know what current M855A1 is being produced on.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    By full production I mean production in SCAMP machinery. I do not know what current M855A1 is being produced on.
    Oh okay, I know essentially nothing about the machinery ammunition is produced on. Either way, what I've seen of the stuff seems to mirror DocGKR's statement.

    But I can tell you emphatically that M118LR went to complete shit for quite a while as it became more in demand. Would not be surprised to see the same happen here. So I agree with you about it not staying down near anywhere close to 1.5 MOA.
    Last edited by a0cake; 09-12-12 at 21:03.

  7. #47
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    GWOT demands and Lake Shitty short-cutting basically turned quite a few lots of M118LR into dog shit.

    SCAMP is not the end-all solution, either. Those machines were built in the 70s and while still viable and cranking out ammo today are obsolescent. The US Army had to resort to off-shore production for much of its 5.56/small arms ammo surge requirements in the first half of the GWOT to date.

    There is ONE military small arms ammo production facility today at Lake City. There's ONE military powder plant at Radford. HUGE difference between WWII and the post war divestitures when budgets were slashed and capacity was scrapped or sold off.

    Higher and tighter acceptance standards (i.e., for SOCOM ammo like Mark 262, 316, and 318) mean non-Lake City production (Black Hills, Federal, etc.).

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinister View Post
    GWOT demands and Lake Shitty short-cutting basically turned quite a few lots of M118LR into dog shit.

    SCAMP is not the end-all solution, either. Those machines were built in the 70s and while still viable and cranking out ammo today are obsolescent. The US Army had to resort to off-shore production for much of its 5.56/small arms ammo surge requirements in the first half of the GWOT to date.

    There is ONE military small arms ammo production facility today at Lake City. There's ONE military powder plant at Radford. HUGE difference between WWII and the post war divestitures when budgets were slashed and capacity was scrapped or sold off.

    Higher and tighter acceptance standards (i.e., for SOCOM ammo like Mark 262, 316, and 318) mean non-Lake City production (Black Hills, Federal, etc.).
    I was wondering, how would MK318 hold up under manuf if the Army was to adopt it?
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    M855 is no longer being used, M855A1 is now the standard round and is I believe a 1.5MOA round.
    A1 has been adopted by the Army as its standard round, but they have billions of rounds of 855 to shoot off.

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=Arctic1;1386444]Fully automatic fire is, aside from very specific instances, a complete waste of ammo.

    The enemy hasn't run out of ammo yet is is still in the fight...

    "Squeze, squeeze, squeeze", ie making accurate and effective hits is what works. 1 bullet snapping past a guys head is infinately more effective than 10 rounds whizzing by 3-4 meters above their heads.

    Soldiers can still fire single accurate and effective hits that work. Now they can also fire FA when single shots are not getting the job done. You act like the new M41A is full auto all the time. Nothing lost, everything gained...win/win!
    'Evil Minds That Plot Destruction'

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