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Thread: So Which Round for Home Defense? You Decide.

  1. #1
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    So Which Round for Home Defense? You Decide.

    Through my time here on this forum, I've learned alot about ballistics thanks to Doc and many others who have done their own tests and have gone through the same learning curve I did. I'm by no means a ballistic expert, but I've learned enough to at least have an idea. Through that time, I noticed that one of the most common questions regarding ballistics was "What round is the best for HD in terms of effectiveness against the target, AND will limit the possibility of friendly casualties if a round misses and passes through a wall into the next room?" Well, according to those who know way more than me, such as Doc, the short answer is, "Its not possible to have both."

    It's ultimately about the software and not the hardware, knowing your target, its foreground and background, shot composition, and what may be behind the next wall. Once you have that, THEN try to maximize your hardware to meet the software. As far as hardware selection, it took me a while to accept the fact that the target that needs to be eliminated may not always be out in the open for a clear, unobstructed shot. Further, I had to accept that anything that will penetrate to the acceptable depth (terminally speaking) WILL present a threat to anyone on the other side of a wall if there is a missed shot or pass-through. The threat is priority number one, with consideration for friendly casualties a very close second.

    So, enter the bonded soft point debate. You either use a bonded soft point that has acceptable wounding/penetration characteristics through barriers AND unobstructed shots or you use a fragmenting round that won't do as well through barriers, but good results for unobstructed shots....OR you don't educate yourself and use a round that has sub-par penetration numbers for the chance of midigating friendly casualties. I like options, and since I don't know what kind of threat I'll be faced with, I know which round I'd choose.

    This leads me to a test that I've been wanting to do for a while now. I wanted to design a test to see what certain rounds would do through a "wall" such as you would find in your home, and the penetration depth they were able to obtain in gallon jugs of water (simulating tissue). There has been similar tests done with only sheetrock, or only water jugs, but as far as I know, never with both (unless Doc has done this and I haven't seen it yet?). And, yes, gelatin would have been much better than water, but it is what is readily available and easiest to work with for me.

    I built a "box" with two pieces of sheetrock spaced 4" apart (approximate distance of the space in your walls) and gallon jugs of water to catch the projectile starting 12" from the second piece of sheetrock.



    I used different pieces of sheetrock (all cut the same size from the same larger sheet that I bought from the hardware store) for each test performed (except for the XM223SP1, since I ran that one twice...more on that later). All water jugs were the same temperature, stored the same way, and placed the same way inside the box when the test was run.

    As you can see below, my box didn't hold up as expected since I didn't account for the energy being imparted into the water by the rifle projectiles. The first two jugs were typically pretty well shredded, especially the first one, and the water pressure tore the side walls off! Below is the only pic I got of the aftermath, but was pretty typical for all the rifle rounds fired. The sole pistol round that I fired showed pretty obviously how much lower energy it carried when compared to rifle rounds...but the penetration might surprise you...more on that later too.



    Below are the results for the tests performed.

    *These tests were all shot from a distance of 10yds. Rifle was a 14.5" AR and pistol was a G19.*

    Rounds used were:

    Federal XM556FBIT3 (62gr TBBC projectile)
    Federal XM223SP1 (62gr Fusion projectile)
    Hornady 75gr TAP T2
    Federal 55gr XM193
    Barnes 62gr RRLP (Reduced Ricochet Limited Penetration)
    Speer 124gr Gold Dot (standard pressure)

    **NOTE**
    The first picture of each test will show the FRONT side of each section of wall, meaning entry holes, indicated by a "W1/W2". The second picture shows the BACK side of each section, meaning exit holes. In the case of the Fusion Projectile, "T1" indicates "Test 1" and "T2" indicates "Test 2".

    Also, I didn't search for or pick out every tiny piece of lead that was left in the jugs...since my main goal is to show the "lethality" of various rounds after contact with a typical interior wall of a home, I didn't feel that the tiny flakes of lead that I could find in some of the jugs were significant enough to pick out. Anything that was large enough to cause potential injury was picked out and collected for the results.
    Last edited by Ironman8; 11-10-12 at 10:22.

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    XM556FBIT3 & XM223SP1

    Federal 62gr XM556FBIT3

    Performed as expected, nice expansion and great penetration. Best performer of all rifle rounds tested.

    There was some expansion that occurred between the first and second pice of sheetrock, but the majority of it was done in the water jugs.






    Test Results
    Penetration Depth: 4 Jugs
    Projectile Recovered: 4th Jug
    Expanded Diameter: .467"
    Retained Weight: 52.2 grains


    Federal 62gr XM223SP1

    This one actually surprised me. I was expecting similar results to the TBBC, but it didn't hold together like I thought it would. Every gel or water test I've seen, the projectile held together nicely. I actually ran this test twice because I thought it was a fluke, but got very similar results on both tests.

    There seemed to be more rapid expansion within the "wall" (just judging by entry and exit holes) when compared to the TBBC, so I'm not sure if this contributed to the projectile breaking apart when hitting water. If someone (Doc) knows why this might have happened, I'm all ears. I still think its a great round though.

    *Note the star shaped entry hole on the front side of the 2nd side of the wall*






    Test 1 Results
    Penetration Depth: 2 Jugs
    Projectile Recovered: 2nd Jug
    Expanded Diameter: N/A
    Retained Weight: 25.2 grains

    Test 2 Results
    Penetration Depth: 3 Jugs
    Projectile Recovered: 2nd and 3rd Jug
    Expanded Diameter: .456"
    Retained Weight: Overall 36.8 grains (7.4 grains in 2nd Jug / 29.4 grains in 3rd Jug)
    Last edited by Ironman8; 09-07-12 at 15:57.

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    Hornady 75gr TAP T2 (8126N)

    This was, not surprisingly, the best performer of the fragmenting rounds that I tested. It did have more penetration than I expected and broke into a few fairly large pieces...which is why you would rather use a heavier fragmenting round than a lighter one (see the XM193 test below for comparison).





    Test Results
    Penetration Depth: 4 Jugs
    Projectile Recovered: 2nd and 4th Jug
    Expanded Diameter: N/A
    Retained Weight: Overall 46.3 grains (17.2 grains in 2nd Jug / 29.1 grains in 4th Jug)


    Federal 55gr XM193

    The penetration and weight retention numbers of this one really surprised me as well.





    Test Results
    Penetration Depth: 2 Jugs
    Projectile Recovered: 2nd Jug
    Expanded Diameter: N/A
    Retained Weight: 11.4 grains


    Barnes 62gr RRLP

    This performed as I expected since this is a RRLP round, meaning it basically disintegrated, but surprisingly wasn't too far off the XM193 numbers.

    *Note the rapid fragmentation of the round between the first and second pieces of sheetrock. Finding even the pieces that I did was a chore. Did what it was designed to do IMO.*





    Test Results
    Penetration Depth: 2 Jugs
    Projectile Recovered: 2nd Jug
    Expanded Diameter: N/A
    Retained Weight: 1.9 grains
    Last edited by Ironman8; 09-07-12 at 15:58.

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    Speer 124gr Gold Dot

    As I said above, the energy of a handgun round into medium is noticeably lower than a rifle (yes, common sense, I know) but the penetration, in spite of the expansion, was on par with what Doc and others have said. However, it has been stated that through sheetrock, a hollowpoint can plug up with the material and act like a FMJ...this didn't happen here apparently, unless the expansion occurred after the sheetrock "plug" was washed out by the water. Who knows, this is where ballistic gelatin would have come in handy.






    Test Results
    Penetration Depth: 3 Jugs (I actually found the projectile sitting between the 3rd and 4th jug walls)
    Projectile Recovered: 3rd/4th Jug
    Expanded Diameter: .583"
    Retained Weight: 124.0 grains
    Last edited by Ironman8; 09-07-12 at 15:59.

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    A little more "real world" example

    Ok, so here's the backstory on this one. I went hunting last season and was forced to use a rifle that I hadn't used in several years. Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to confirm zero. Thinking that I would at least be fairly close since I had it put up for several years, I didn't worry too much about it. Well, that was a mistake. An audad came out 236 yds away one morning, I lined up the crosshairs behind the shoulder, and squeezed. He went down, great! However, my round impacted high and severed his spine. I didn't want him to suffer, so I went down and finished him with my 9mm loaded with Gold Dot at about a range of 10-15 yds. The Gold Dot did its job pretty quickly, and after skinning, I recovered the round underneath his hide on the opposite side of his neck that I shot him on. After we harvested the meat and put it on ice, my cousin wanted to see what his Winchester 124gr Talon would do against a chunk of meat, so we chose a part of the audad's neck to shoot at since that is the area I shot him with the Gold Dot. Keep in mind that the hide was not a factor since it was pulled off, and the meat was now a different temperature and consistency when we shot it with the Talon. The Gold Dot performance is more "real world" since the audad was alive when I shot it, but the Talon results will at least give you an idea.

    Estimated penetration of the Gold Dot was somewhere around 8-10 inches (he had a thick hide).
    Expanded diameter and Retained weight of the Gold Dot are shown below.

    Penetration couldn't be determined, but diameter and retained weight of the Talon are shown below.

    Gold Dot-Left / Talon-Right


    Gold Dot


    Gold Dot Retained Weight


    Gold Dot Expansion


    Talon


    Talon Retained Weight


    Talon Expansion
    Last edited by Ironman8; 09-07-12 at 16:04.

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    Thanks for posting this. Pretty interesting results with the XM223SP1, I mean isnt this stuff supposed to work through auto glass which is a much tougher barrier? Since the gold dot is of similar construction I wonder if it will exhibit the same results. I really like the 64gr gold dot and now Im wondering if the stuff in my mags is good enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    Thanks for posting this. Pretty interesting results with the XM223SP1, I mean isnt this stuff supposed to work through auto glass which is a much tougher barrier? Since the gold dot is of similar construction I wonder if it will exhibit the same results. I really like the 64gr gold dot and now Im wondering if the stuff in my mags is good enough.
    No problem man, been wanting to do this for a while.

    Yeah I was really surprised about the SP1 myself, and I really couldn't tell you why it didn't stay together. The only thing I could think of was how much it expanded so early (between the sections of wall), and the force it hit the water with, thus (maybe) tearing it apart. I would like to hear other opinions from those who have tested it as well. It did hold together slightly better on my second test though...

    In all honesty, I'm not sure I would go switching my ammo out just from my test. I still think its great ammo, and probably more accurate than the TBBC as a factory loaded round.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman8 View Post
    There has been similar tests done with only sheetrock, or only water jugs, but as far as I know, never with both (unless Doc has done this and I haven't seen it yet?).
    People at "theboxotruth" do that regularly no? Been a while since I looked but having various bullets go through various common barriers and into water jugs their forte I thought.

    Regardless, thanx for the info and time taken to post it.
    Last edited by WillBrink; 09-07-12 at 16:24.
    - Will

    General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

    www.BrinkZone.com


    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

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    Great thread!
    I'm very impressed by the Gold Dot's performance compared to the rifle cartridges.
    Curious how the 124gr +P load would have performed.

    That FBI load looks like the winner here for the 5.56.

    Thanks for taking the time to do this.
    Last edited by polymorpheous; 09-07-12 at 16:37.
    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    Anybody that owns or sells pistol versions of assault rifles is a bottom feeder, irregardless of the ban status of certain ammunition.

    They are illigetimate weapons that have no real purpose other than to attract retards to the gun community.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    People at "theboxotruth" do that regularly no? Been a while since I looked but having various bullets go through various common barriers and into water jugs their forte I thought.

    Regardless, thanx for the info and time taken to post it.
    That was one of the tests that I inferred there. As far as I know, they only did multiple sections of sheetrock to simulate the number of walls the round will pass through. I could be wrong though.

    And no prob

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