Page 18 of 19 FirstFirst ... 816171819 LastLast
Results 171 to 180 of 181

Thread: Gotta keep them ARs clean

  1. #171
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,476
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by pinzgauer View Post
    The fluted chamber takes a different technique to clean, but my experience is that HK produces just a tiny fraction of the carbon that AR's do, so it's just not an issue.

    Mine has had a steady diet of German surplus 7.62 NATO date coded from 1959 up to the late 80's. Some of it even the slightly tarnished bulk stuff. In the 80's the surplus German stuff was cheaper than even 5.56, and we shot tons of the the stuff.

    I will say that my experience you should not run the HK "wet" like an AR. It's not needed, and appears to trap & suspend more carbon that would normally get blown out with ejection. So light lube for the critical areas is what I've found works best.
    I'm going to have to disagree.

    I carried one for 7 years, and the weapon gets dirty as hell in my opinion. We always kept the rifles well lubed, both internally and externally. My experience with DI AR's is limited, but I helped shoot 1000 rounds through a C8 SFW in a few hours once. It was pretty dirty, but 1000 rounds through a G3 would be hell.....especially the barrel extension/trunnion area, as well as the chamber and barrel.

    It the weapon was not lubed, the fouling would harden and build up quite rapidly. We found a very good technique for cleaning the extension, by using a plastic cleaning rod meant for the cocking lever housing and what is best described as cleaning yarn:

    It's not about surviving, it's about winning!

  2. #172
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    135
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic1 View Post
    Why is CLP crap in the cold? Operating temp for BreakFree CLP is -75F/-59C. I've used CLP in temps ranging from -50C to +50C, without issue.

    Maybe now but it got pretty stiff way back when. I'm sure they've changed it for that reason.

  3. #173
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,824
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic1 View Post
    No, fouling coming out of micro-pores in the barrel.

    Often we would clean our weapon after having been at the range, and the patches would be completely white. When the NCO's and officers came to inspect the rifle the day after, the patch they ran through the bore was more often than not dirty. That fouling was from the micro-pores in the barrels, "sweating" during the night.

    This was 12 years ago, though, during my conscript service where the focus was retard clean weapons. We had receivers and barrels that were so worn they rusted just thinking about rain. During that time people scrubbed the gun with steel wool and what not.
    My read is that is more of a "white glove inspection" mindset failing than one of the rifle, though it makes you wonder how the bores were treated.

    Did they issue you the HK cleaning kit with the segmented chain type pull? I've seen some that the beads were steel, others were aluminum. Really makes you wonder, that could be worse than the US steel jointed cleaning rods.

    I've run the HK91 sub-freezing with no problems, but never in your Arctic conditions. (Though I did spend some time in the mountains in -30c weather just South of Trondheim, NO one January.... cold, but beautiful skiing!!! The biggest issue we had were the Danes on winter holiday!)

  4. #174
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,824
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic1 View Post
    I'm going to have to disagree.

    I carried one for 7 years, and the weapon gets dirty as hell in my opinion. We always kept the rifles well lubed, both internally and externally.
    I'll defer to your experience with the NO G3's as a service rifle, though I have to wonder about the condition of the rifles. Most of the civvy HK's I see are pristine in comparison, especially regarding the coatings.

    Also wonder if all the lube is the difference, the current recommendation is light lube on the rollers and the inside of the receiver rails. Everything else just wiped down. (So the NO mil says to run the HK wet, when it likes dry. And the US military teaches to run the AR dry, when it should be wet. Go figure)

    It's very expensive to shoot 1k of 7.62 now, so my 91 normally is just seeing 200-300 or so during a range trip. But side by side with our AR's same number of rounds with surplus ammo, there is no comparison. Both shoot fine, just the AR's have far more residue to wipe out. But that's just my experience.

    Oddly enough, one area that seems to suffer when over lubed is the cocking tube, it gets gummy and will result in slow movement when chambering. Since this is not an operating area it does not need near the lube that some do. But clearly some carbon is venting up there.

  5. #175
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,824
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Magelk View Post
    Maybe now but it got pretty stiff way back when. I'm sure they've changed it for that reason.
    My local surplus stores have "Arctic CLP" that no one will touch. Smells like old CLP, but I have no idea of what's different or how well it works. (Which is why they still have it) Tan plastic bottle like the old LSA lube, black lettering. And some in larger cans.

  6. #176
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    8,420
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic1 View Post
    No, fouling coming out of micro-pores in the barrel...
    Gotcha. Most of the older rifles did this, especially any that had shot corrosive ammo. I remember when I came home from a two year overseas tour and looked down the barrel of my favorite 6mm. I nearly jumped out of my skin because I thought the bore had baldy corroded. Couple of swipes with a bore brush a few patches and it was bright & shiny again. Turned out to be a combination of the crapola sweating out of the bore and a herd of dust bunnies.

    I remember as a kid having to clean my rifle until the patches came out clean to satisfy my father. He was in the Marines during the fifties (regulars) and early sixties (reserves). Even so, sometimes I'd run a patch through just prior to a shooting trip to clean out any excess oil and would still get residue on the patch.

    Conventional wisdom in those days was that fouling usually harmed accuracy. Some experts had the radical idea that copper fouling would sometimes smooth a bore. Some rifles would lose accuracy after cleaning until a few fouling shots were fired. Even more radical was the idea that if a rifle is shooting good, don't clean the bore until accuracy dropped off. (Most accuracy buffs shooting 22 rimfires won't clean their bores at all because they see a noticeable negative affect on accuracy when they do.) The idea that a shooter shouldn't clean the bore of a good shooting rifle became more prevalent as barrel steel & production methods, bullet alloys and gun powder technology improved.

    Myself, I saw no improvement in accuracy by attempting to clean the bore until all copper & carbon fouling was removed. Indeed, it's impossible to remove all copper or lead residue with just chemical cleaning. Outer's came up with their Foul-Out system which used a "reverse" electro-chemical plating process to remove copper or lead from the bore. At the time it was hailed as the best cleaning system and every serious rifleman had to have one. Now, it's almost forgotten.

    Now, I just make a few passes with a Boresnake, remove the heaviest of carbon fouling from the rest of the weapon and lube as required. Since I've lived out west most of my life, I've had little worry about corrosion. Even during the three years I was exiled to the semi-tropical climes of Texas.

    In contrast, I have a Winchester 94 I inherited from my grandfather that is an early smokeless powder version. Cleaning must be more detailed and more carefully done to preserve it because the old steel requires it
    Last edited by MistWolf; 12-10-12 at 11:28.
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

  7. #177
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3,095
    Feedback Score
    7 (89%)
    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post


    Now, I just make a few passes with a Boresnake, remove the heaviest of carbon fouling from the rest of the weapon and lube as required. Since I've lived out west most of my life, I've had little worry about corrosion. Even during the three years I was exiled to the semi-tropical climes of Texas.
    Lol tropical climates.....nothing like watching things rust as you stare at them. A film of lube is key to keeping guns from rusting here. I'm in SE texas about 10 minutes from the beach so things rust fast.

    I make sure all steel surfaces have a light film of lube on them(BCG gets a nice heavy coating of SLIP2000EWL), I have never had rust issues when using a liquid lube(the lube migrates to parts I miss). This is also one reason why I like to clean my guns after every use, then relube it well. Keeps it rust free, even when I leave it sitting in the den for a week. I have also found SLIP2000EWL is an excellent rust protector.
    Last edited by sinlessorrow; 12-10-12 at 11:45.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  8. #178
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,824
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    Gotcha. Most of the older rifles did this, especially any that had shot corrosive ammo.
    Getting off topic, but that's not that uncommon in rifles without chrome bores even without corrosive ammo, well cleaned and properly lubed. It's a pore thing.

    My understanding is that nearly all HK family did not have chrome bores, and it's a debate whether that was oversight or by design. They did on the LMG's, so clearly they could. They were CHF though. To my knowledge most of the post WW2- early cold war generation rifles were not chrome lined. FAL's & (G1's) were not initially. Issue M-14's were one of the first, though the match ones were not. And from memory, later FAL's were chromed starting in the late 60's-early 70's.

  9. #179
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    8,420
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    From what I understand, most metric FALs did not have chromed bores. I don't think any of the StG bores were CL'ed. It was either the Argentine or the Imbel barrels that were CL'ed if I recall right.

    I have no idea on the Commonwealth patterns
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

  10. #180
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,824
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    From what I understand, most metric FALs did not have chromed bores. I don't think any of the StG bores were CL'ed. It was either the Argentine or the Imbel barrels that were CL'ed if I recall right.

    I have no idea on the Commonwealth patterns
    Aussies report later model L1A1's were chrome bore. I've also heard that some Imbel mfg'd were, but less data there.

    In any case, my understanding is that chrome bores were not the norm for Main Battle Rifles with the exception of the non-match M-14's. And there are arguments to this day on whether it would be an advantage or disadvantage for a MBR given the intended role. I certainly don't believe my late 70's CHF HK barrel is a slouch or at a disadvantage as an issue service rifle configuration.

Page 18 of 19 FirstFirst ... 816171819 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •