How do we motivate people to get proper CCW training?

[AUplainsman]

When I received my HCP (CCW) in 2008, there was no emphasis on me taking any other training after the fact by the instructor of that course. I recall him telling us to shoot 50 rounds every month to stay familiar. Of course, I'm sure many whom graduated that class never shoot at all.

A gentleman I met recently sitting by me at the table of a NRA banquet was open carrying that evening. I asked in conversation which range he frequented. He told me that he "hated to say it, but hadn't shot in years". Another said his carry gun was flawless through 50 rounds. Another can "rack the slide fast" so the gun is safer if a round isn't chambered. I could go on and on, but you get the point. That kind of conversation happens all the time with a majority of CCW holders around here and in my opinion, this mindset makes them a liability. I've actually not met anyone on the ranges around here that have any formal training from reputable instructors. People just don't understand the impact of training and don't make it a priority.

When I head out to the range, I know what I'm going to be working on that trip. I primarily shoot defensive drills that include drawing, reloads, moving, malfunctions, etc--those things that are a necessity in a fight. I get asked all the time if I am a cop or military, which is not the case as I'm just an average American citizen. Since that's the case, I get the "you're a mall ninja" look half the time and hell, that's without any 5.11 pants, UTG gear, spikes t-shirts, or any other tacticool gear. Ohh well, at least I know I'm doing what I can to be capable of protecting myself and my loved ones. I hate that this is the mindset of many other shooters. Unfortunately, there are a lot of tacticool wanna be guys out there who would rather have a bunch of useless crap rather than invest the money into some training that may actually open their eyes.

[Axcelea]

I see this as an issue with multiple causes and issues.

One thing is cost, most people are cheap, cannot afford, etc.

Another is time, it can take a lot of time to build someone from knowing pretty much nothing about guns to being skilled at maintenance, drawing, firing, moving, etc as well as purchasing wisely.

Then there is all sorts of liability issues of providing good and effective training.

Political issues.

I am sure many more as well.

These issues combined are then complicated by the reality of what the bare minimal is. Those here strive for perfection and for that worse case scenario but for the most part it is perceived as unnecessary and in reality isn't (and now there is a target on me).

Yeah I took a 12 hour course that was more or less 8 hours of "introductory to pistol 101" followed by 2 hours of "here is the law when it comes to lethal force" and closed with 2 hours of "shoot 50 rounds and do not be an idiot while doing so" and an easy exam that was open book, open consultation, and informally graded. Plenty of jokes about gun usage on TV which is fine by me, I like making fun of that stuff too. Taurus Judge is great (what?). What I would call a misunderstanding of the 21 foot rule. Etc. I could have easily been spared that, most of us (M4C) could have, sadly for most the class it was the first steps of knowing or doing anything firearm related with some of those steps going in a bad direction (21 foot rule as stated by instructors, Taurus Judge Spotlight, de emphasizing need for carrying, low cutting accuracy demands, etc). And there is some talk of even doing away with that.

In the end most people will get away with it and its better then not being able to CCW and really it mostly just jips themselves.

Would be nice to have more prestige to being proficient at shooting like there is prestige of being a high ranking martial artist. Of course then you will have Mc Instructors like you have Mc Dojos where people with prestige still might suck because of the way things are taught, their mentality, etc. Probably best left to you being satisfied with yourself with the only people being capable of recognizing what you have accomplished being your peers (others who shoot, train, etc).

[Psybain]

Part of the problem is a lot of ranges (at least in my part of NC) are far away, like someone else mentioned, and the closest ones to me don't let me draw from my holster. If you even mention it to the RSO, he looks at you like you're some kind of domestic terrorist. just allowing me to practice drawing from my holster and shooting would help greatly.

[glocktogo]

CCW is an insurance policy. Most people on the street buy the cheapest insurance they can get (state minimum coverage). How many people do you know that carry high end policies with lots of coverage?

Most of your average CCW folks will never get attacked. Of the small percentage that do, 90% of those will be able to scare the BG off by merely displaying the gun. Of the remainder, 8% will be able to incapacitate or deter their attacker by shooting. Only 1-2% will get in so far over their heads that they lose.

Most of us are that .05% that would prevail even in a serious furball with a hardened foe. We recognize that there are truly evil people in the world and that not all of them are inept. We're training for that half of a half a percent scenario, because it's simply unacceptable for us to allow a goblin to win, ever.

I don't think you're fighting the mindset that they're fully prepared simply by having a gun, so much as the reality that most of them will never need much more.

[mick610]

When I received my HCP (CCW) in 2008, there was no emphasis on me taking any other training after the fact by the instructor of that course. I recall him telling us to shoot 50 rounds every month to stay familiar. Of course, I'm sure many whom graduated that class never shoot at all.

A gentleman I met recently sitting by me at the table of a NRA banquet was open carrying that evening. I asked in conversation which range he frequented. He told me that he "hated to say it, but hadn't shot in years". Another said his carry gun was flawless through 50 rounds. Another can "rack the slide fast" so the gun is safer if a round isn't chambered. I could go on and on, but you get the point. That kind of conversation happens all the time with a majority of CCW holders around here and in my opinion, this mindset makes them a liability. I've actually not met anyone on the ranges around here that have any formal training from reputable instructors. People just don't understand the impact of training and don't make it a priority.

When I head out to the range, I know what I'm going to be working on that trip. I primarily shoot defensive drills that include drawing, reloads, moving, malfunctions, etc--those things that are a necessity in a fight. I get asked all the time if I am a cop or military, which is not the case as I'm just an average American citizen. Since that's the case, I get the "you're a mall ninja" look half the time and hell, that's without any 5.11 pants, UTG gear, spikes t-shirts, or any other tacticool gear. Ohh well, at least I know I'm doing what I can to be capable of protecting myself and my loved ones. I hate that this is the mindset of many other shooters. Unfortunately, there are a lot of tacticool wanna be guys out there who would rather have a bunch of useless crap rather than invest the money into some training that may actually open their eyes.

The "Tacticool" mindset is too strong. WHY do you want to be in a gunfight????? Even the Cops think having a shooting under your belt is a good thing. WRONG! It's something to be avoided and I have been a BIG proponent of learning to use your choice of guns in an organized SPORT where skills develop and are available but the mindset is different. Knowing how to use the firearm will go a long way with the confidence from action shooting sports. You don't have to be a "Mall Ninja", just put on your "Team shirt" and have a good time. I spend time with these guys every weekend. They are GOOD shooters but do not look like MALL NINJAS!
They have a confidence level way above the CCW/CHL only guys and practice because it's fun but don't challenge them....you'll lose.

[zacii]

1. Remove penis/ego.
2. Delete everything they THOUGHT they knew about firearms, gear and how to shoot.

C4

This is it in a nutshell.

Most of the people that I know who have a CCW permit don't even carry most of the time, let alone know what to do with their weapon.

There is an insane amount of superstition in the gun culture. How do you convince someone that they don't know what they think they know?



Sent from my Galaxy S2

[mpd046]

CCW is an insurance policy. Most people on the street buy the cheapest insurance they can get (state minimum coverage). How many people do you know that carry high end policies with lots of coverage?

That might be one of the better analogies I've seen describing the issue.

Matt

[Sabre07]

I've discovered something a while back when I was neck deep in motorcycles. There are motorcycle owners and motorcyclists. Same for guns. When we do a class we usually have one of two that are there, but really "have been around guns all their lives" and are taking the class for some range time. Invariably, these folks admit after the training they didn't realize there was that much to it. "I never thought much about reloading or moving off line or..."

You don't know, what you don't know.

In AL we don't have anything in the way of CCW training except Driver's Ed in 10th grade. If you pass that you can drive to the Sheriff's Office and plop down your funds for the CCW permit.

I think training has got to meet the folks on their own plane. A housewife may not want to attend a training course with dudes in Oakley's and plate carriers. Basic skills in repetitive sequences are a must. Skill testing also gives the student a bit of appreciation for what they have just spent several hours learning.

[Axcelea]

I've discovered something a while back when I was neck deep in motorcycles. There are motorcycle owners and motorcyclists. Same for guns. When we do a class we usually have one of two that are there, but really "have been around guns all their lives" and are taking the class for some range time. Invariably, these folks admit after the training they didn't realize there was that much to it. "I never thought much about reloading or moving off line or..."

You don't know, what you don't know.

In AL we don't have anything in the way of CCW training except Driver's Ed in 10th grade. If you pass that you can drive to the Sheriff's Office and plop down your funds for the CCW permit.

I think training has got to meet the folks on their own plane. A housewife may not want to attend a training course with dudes in Oakley's and plate carriers. Basic skills in repetitive sequences are a must. Skill testing also gives the student a bit of appreciation for what they have just spent several hours learning.

The saying. Gun owners buy guns, shooters buy ammo.

[nineteenkilo]

I hate to say it but you can lead a horse to water...

Until that person is involved in a situation which they are nothing short of lucky to get out of alive they wont wake up.

First and foremost, you have a to establish a tangible need that gun owners can understand.

A legal requirement from a state does NOT do this in any way. It simply looks like a way for the local gubment to make more money by sucking fees out of those dumb enough to want to carry a gun.

The above quote establishes such a need.