Ultra Compact Scope. Is There A Market?

[Jake'sDad]

A buddy and I have been working on a custom rifle project, (which hopefully will turn into a future thread). In looking for an optic for it, what we really wanted was something akin to the old Colt 3X scope, at least size wise. Doesn't seem to be much in that category made. One of the makers of the Colt scope, Hakko, now Japan Optics, lists a SSZ-ATG-15416. It's in the size and weight ballpark, (a little bigger than we hoped, but close), but it's a 1.5-4X, which wouldn't be our first choice, and as near as I can see, no one seems to be bringing them into the country.

Through a friend, I was able to have a conversation with a "famous maker" optics company this morning. I floated the idea of a 3 or 4 power, Colt type scope. Surprisingly, he was actually quite interested, and asked if he thought there was interest in something like that.

Is there a market for a super small, 3-4X scope, built rugged, with decent glass? Clearly, I'm not talking about a precision scope. I'm talking no frills, non illuminated, (maybe a tritium dot option?) probably no BDC. Perhaps 30MM, with a flatop attachment point for a mount on the bottom, but could be used with rings, or ring, on other types of firearms. Etched glass, with a very basic reticle, maybe a second dot/line for a 4-500 yard zero.

I realize this would be a niche item, but do you have a lightweight rifle of some sort that you'd like to have such an option for? Lever guns, etc.?

[SkiDevil]

The only two domestic produced compact scopes that come to mind are the Leopuld FX 2.5 X 20mm and the Burris Timberline 4 X 20mm. The Burris was discontinued however they are still producing a low power scout type scope.

I own the Leupold but have no first-hand experience with the Burris. It seems that if the Burris was a popular item it would still be in production.

I think it is a great idea personally. The compact low power scope is highly underrated. A very versatile optic with many possible applications.

[Jake'sDad]

The only two domestic produced compact scopes that come to mind are the Leopuld FX 2.5 X 20mm and the Burris Timberline 4 X 20mm. The Burris was discontinued however they are still producing a low power scout type scope.

I own the Leupold but have no first-hand experience with the Burris. It seems that if the Burris was a popular item it would still be in production.

The Leupold is light, but still bigger than we're looking for. I believe the Burris was too. The Colt type scopes are under 6" long iirc, and that's the size range we're looking at.

I think it is a great idea personally. The compact low power scope is highly underrated. A very versatile optic with many possible applications.

I'll put you down for 6 then....

[Singlestack Wonder]

There is already quite a few fixed power 3x and 4x small scopes out there. From high end ACOG's to low end such as the Burris AR332. Add to that all of the cheap chicom knockoffs and I think the market is pretty full right now.

[Jake'sDad]

There is already quite a few fixed power 3x and 4x small scopes out there. From high end ACOG's to low end such as the Burris AR332. Add to that all of the cheap chicom knockoffs and I think the market is pretty full right now.

Do you know of one that is sub 8 oz and less than 6' long?

Respectfully, I don't think much is made in the concept I'm talking about.

[praharin]

According the the Trijicon site the standard TA01 is 9.9 ounces and 5.9" in length. Pretty darn close.

http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/produc...b.php?pid=TA01

That's without a rail mount. But the Japanese scope appears to me to be too low to use properly on an AR without a riser. Probably evens out in the end, but I don't know for sure.


Based on the price of the Trijicon offerings, I'm guessing that the lack of products in this class is the cost of manufacturing and the limited market. For 1/10th the price you can get all the optical clarity and magnification of an ACOG with a higher weight and without the durability or illumination. Most guys who don't need that durability will gladly carry an extra 16 ounces to save $900.

That's not a bash on Trijicon. They offer a great set of products and I wish I had one, but it's not for everyone.

[Singlestack Wonder]

Do you know of one that is sub 8 oz and less than 6' long?

Respectfully, I don't think much is made in the concept I'm talking about.

Your original post mentioned nothing about sub 8 oz. The are optics with a length of less than 6".

Even so, the market is full and there will need to be a compelling feature above and beyond what is already out there for someone to purchase it.

Good luck!

[Jake'sDad]

According the the Trijicon site the standard TA01 is 9.9 ounces and 5.9" in length. Pretty darn close.

http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/produc...b.php?pid=TA01

That's without a rail mount. But the Japanese scope appears to me to be too low to use properly on an AR without a riser. Probably evens out in the end, but I don't know for sure.


Based on the price of the Trijicon offerings, I'm guessing that the lack of products in this class is the cost of manufacturing and the limited market. For 1/10th the price you can get all the optical clarity and magnification of an ACOG with a higher weight and without the durability or illumination. Most guys who don't need that durability will gladly carry an extra 16 ounces to save $900.

That's not a bash on Trijicon. They offer a great set of products and I wish I had one, but it's not for everyone.

We looked at the ACOG's but the 1.5" eye relief wouldn't work for our project.

Cost wise, a small 3 or 4X with no BDC could be done for less than an ACOG.

[Jake'sDad]

Your original post mentioned nothing about sub 8 oz. The are optics with a length of less than 6".

Even so, the market is full and there will need to be a compelling feature above and beyond what is already out there for someone to purchase it.

Good luck!

The Colt scope I mentioned was the inspiration as far as size, and the Japan Optics scope I linked to but wanted it smaller, is under 8 oz and under 6".

Maybe another way for me to put it would be an Aimpoint Pro size scope, in 3 or 4X. Not much in the market like that. And remember, I'm not talking about an AR specific scope. This would work on an AR with the right mount attached, but would also be appropriate for small bolt guns, levers, etc., by just using a 30MM ring or rings.

Maybe another inspiration for me was the similar to Colt AR-180 scope, also made by Hakko, iirc. I had one of the original Costa Mesa guns and sometimes carried it in my patrol car trunk 30 years ago, (against policy). Having that small, easily attached and return to zero scope along, gave me some options for very little in extra weight or size to carry. Even today, when guys see an old Colt or 180 scope for the first time, a lot of them are intrigued with it.

Like I said, it's a niche concept. and the guys I've talked to about it either think it's a great idea and want one, or can't understand why anyone would. Just like a lot of optics products out there.

[mallowpufft]

Depending on the price point I think it would be handy.
Brush guns, trunk and truck guns, etc.

Similar items are too far out of my budget to be a reality for the next 5 years or so unless I buy NcStar/UTG, etc. (Which I won't do). If it managed to come in around $250 or less with the quality roughly about Redfield or certain Vortex offerings I'd be all about one. With enough eye relief a 3 or 4x on my 336 would be excellent. It would still be light and handy but I could see a little better

Tapatalk ate my spelling and grammar.