Survival vs survival...what's the difference?

[Reagans Rascals]

Some people think technology can make up for a lack of knowledge... and it can... but only to a certain point....

these are the same kinds of people that have 17 pound M4's.... with all of that shit hanging off of them.... because they don't really have any viable knowledge or training... so they feel technology can make up for that....

remember..... THE MORE YOU KNOW THE LESS YOU NEED

need... being the key word... want and need are 2 different animals...

thus.... the more actual knowledge and first hand experience you have, the less dependence you will have on technology...

take the Dakota Fire Hole I had mentioned earlier for instance:

• its fast to make

• it creates a more efficient fire thus creating less smoke and uses less wood

• it keeps the fire safe from windy conditions

• it creates a convective heating condition that is more efficient at heating a shelter when used in combination with a proper Heat Reflector

• it provides and easy way to cook over it

• it is hard to see at night thus keeping your bivy stealthy

• it is very easy to clean up, simply kick all the dirt you dug out back into it and self extinguishes and hides the fact that you even had a fire there

so now you have eliminated using an above ground fire, have reserved your fire wood/kindling, eliminated using a cooking rack or some type of A-frame cooking stand... made a warmer bivy and thus do not require as an extensive shelter... the list goes on and on for the things you have eliminated the need for...

however; most standard "preppers" are oblivious to this technique because they have no real world knowledge or experience to fall back on... they simply hoard technology and hope that will be enough... and in the end... those people will be the first to go because they are not self sustainable without their "stores"

it sucks to try and light a friction fire in wet, windy, cold, snowy, dark conditions... and its damn near impossible... but what if that is all you can do?

technology fails... knowledge and experience are the only true valuable resources...

however... if you have that knowledge and experience... there's nothing in the books that says that's all you're allowed to rely on... sometimes its ok to use technology... sometimes its more than fine to use a lighter or ferro rod... but the idea is to be self sufficient with nothing... as in... you end up in a survival situation without even a blade... and you can make do...

its called learn the basics first... then build your knowledge base on top of that...

[HackerF15E]

People have to have all sorts of whiz-bang gadgetry to start a fire or purify some water...what's the deal?

Am I missing some higher-level survival stuff or is it just that most people didn't grow up around it like I did, so it's not just common knowledge?

I think we have a lot of folks in the United States -- it seems to be a generation X and later thing -- who think that things are more important than knowledge or experience.

This is the same thing we see with many firearms owners (seems especially in the last 20 years to be on significant increase): people who are obsessing over minute details of their rifle, and all kinds of accessories, yet barely spend any time actually shooting it or getting experienced as a rifleman. They see much more importance in the tool than they do the ability to use it, or even the ability to achieve the same result through expertise and a lesser tool.

[soulezoo]

I think we have a lot of folks in the United States -- it seems to be a generation X and later thing -- who think that things are more important than knowledge or experience.

This is the same thing we see with many firearms owners (seems especially in the last 20 years to be on significant increase): people who are obsessing over minute details of their rifle, and all kinds of accessories, yet barely spend any time actually shooting it or getting experienced as a rifleman. They see much more importance in the tool than they do the ability to use it, or even the ability to achieve the same result through expertise and a lesser tool.

^^^ amen brother; word...

[nineteenkilo]

This is the same thing we see with many firearms owners (seems especially in the last 20 years to be on significant increase): people who are obsessing over minute details of their rifle, and all kinds of accessories, yet barely spend any time actually shooting it or getting experienced as a rifleman. They see much more importance in the tool than they do the ability to use it, or even the ability to achieve the same result through expertise and a lesser tool.

In all honesty, my issued rifle in the big army was beat to shit. I loved it and it served me well so I couldn't part with it. It had no doo-dads, lights, etc and went bang every single time the trigger was slapped. It was exceedingly accurate andI wore out every part of that weapon through use and carry. Not once did I ever need any 'shite' hanging from a rail to make me more effective.

What makes me sad about it is that I was an anomaly. Most of the other guys had lots of 'kit' (how I loathe that word).

[Tortuga]

What the past couple of posters have said. There are folks out there that put gear above skills.

I see it quite often. A person will be full of bravado in garrison, gripe about the adequate gear issued to them, then perform below expectation in the field, claiming they would have done better if they had better gear.

Myself, I prefer to test myself with primitive or adequate gear so I can enjoy the Gucci gear when it's available.

[skydivr]

The best training tool there is, can't beat the one between your ears...

[remington79]

I made Eagle Scout just before I turned 18. We went camping and hiking often. I still rememberand use the skills I used.

When I go camping I always start my fires without a lighter. I actually find it easier to start a fire without a lighter. When I go outin the woods I carry multiple ways to start a firde. I'll bring a fero rod and a magnesium rod, dryer lint, compressed wood shavings and wax, and a vaccume sealed bic. I also always take a Zippo with me.

This may sound like a lot of stuff but it doesn't up much room or add much weight. There are various ways to start a fire but these work for me. I have always done well with a magnesium bar. Some may consider this as higher tech. However, I'm looking at more effcient ways to start a fire, especially if I'm cold and/wet.

If you want a website that has a lot of info on primative skills go to www.bushcraftusa.com

I forgot to mention some fatwood goes a long ways for fire starting.

[Arctic1]

I think a versatile skillset is important. But I honestly do not see the need to spend time perfecting the more difficult techniques when there are easier ways to get things done.

The first part of survival is planning, being prepared. And honestly, if you have nothing, not even a knife, you won't get very far in demanding conditions.

The key part to survival is to minimize effort and maximize results, seeing as energy will eventually become a scarce resource. If your survival measures require more effort and energy expenditure than the positive effect it provides, you are a lot more likely to fail.

In my opinion, you should know the follwoing things:

-Build shelters (a few different types, for varying climates and terrain)
-Build and sustain a fire (for cooking, heat source and signalling)
-Start a fire (a few different alternative methods)
-Forage for food (easy fishing, snares)

I am aware that people can end up in survival situations that appear out of the blue, but to maximize the chances of survival you need the right gear.

Even though you have the knowledge, without certain equipment it will be very difficult.

[tb-av]

I think a versatile skillset is important. But I honestly do not see the need to spend time perfecting the more difficult techniques when there are easier ways to get things done.

I agree, no need to reinvent the caveman for the majority of the population.

[KlintonP]

I have some of the whiz-bang stuff myself, but it is personally just a supplement to the more permanent survival supplies, and also helps with redundancy. For example, carrying a waterproofed BIC, a ferrocium rod, and matches. Or, a fancy water purifier but also tablets and a simple boiling pot and stove.

For me, a lot of it is that in a real survival situation I want redundancy but also the best technology available. If it's a real survival situation, it would save time and energy to use the lighter and purification filter over the alternatives.

But like others have said, they're no substitute for knowledge.