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Thread: Do AR manufacturers "do" the mid-length differently?

  1. #1
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    Do AR manufacturers "do" the mid-length differently?

    Hi all,

    It seems that BCM really has the mid-length gas system figured out. All I hear is positive feedback about their 16" mid-length guns. They run all types of ammo from hot to mild reliably. I'm wondering how other manufacturers such as Daniel Defense and Noveske "do" their mid-lengths. Any thoughts?

    I know I've read posts here on M4C suggesting that Daniel Defense seems to use gas ports on their mid-lengths that are smaller than ideal, resulting in some malfunctions with mild ammo. True? What is Noveske's take on it? Do they design their mid-length guns to function with a wide range of ammo, or primarily for hotter 5.56mm?

    To be clear, I'm specifically talking about 16" mid-lengths, not 14.5" barrels. Who does the 16" mid-length best, i.e. most reliable with the widest range of ammo? And do these makers take other things into account such as buffer/spring weight, etc?

    Thanks.

    Chris

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    There is no established standard for mid length gas ports so yes, every manufacturer does things a little differently. It's been said that BCM has done cyclic rate testing to determine their gas port size.
    B.A.S. Mechanical Engineering Technology

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris17404 View Post
    I know I've read posts here on M4C suggesting that Daniel Defense seems to use gas ports on their mid-lengths that are smaller than ideal, resulting in some malfunctions with mild ammo. True? What is Noveske's take on it? Do they design their mid-length guns to function with a wide range of ammo, or primarily for hotter 5.56mm?
    I have two Daniel Defense 16" midlength uppers in use, one used frequently, and both have been 100% reliable with a range of ammo including fairly weak PMC .223 and Wolf .223 cartridges, though a class and many carbine competitions, in weather down to 10 degrees F. (that match was using American Eagle .223 55gr - also mild ammo). Your post is the first I've ever heard any claim of DD unreliability with anything, much less specific to the 16" midlength barrel.

    For that matter I've not really heard of any brand of 16" midlength having reliability issues due to being under or overgassed.
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    I just put together a build using a DD midlength barrel. I'm curious as how it will react to the different types of ammo I plan to run through it this weekend.

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    I'm now at 3900 rounds of cheap UMC .223 55gr. on my DDM4V7. Not a single burp or hiccup. Perfectly reliable. My kids shoot it, my friends shoot it, I shoot it. Nobody has any issue. I've shot many hot handloads using 70 gr Barnes bullets and a couple boxes of match Remington .223 and factory Rem .223 varmint bullets.

    I bought all the .223 before I knew better and I've got a ways to go before my pile is gone. I'll be using this ammo at a Redback One class this weekend and I don't expect any issues at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    I'm now at 3900 rounds of cheap UMC .223 55gr. on my DDM4V7. Not a single burp or hiccup. Perfectly reliable. My kids shoot it, my friends shoot it, I shoot it. Nobody has any issue. I've shot many hot handloads using 70 gr Barnes bullets and a couple boxes of match Remington .223 and factory Rem .223 varmint bullets.

    I bought all the .223 before I knew better and I've got a ways to go before my pile is gone. I'll be using this ammo at a Redback One class this weekend and I don't expect any issues at all.
    That's good to know.....

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    Here's the post I was referring to related to DD gas port size:

    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...DD#post1166154

    It's just one data point, but the poster did say they took measurements.

    Chris

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    I've posted this before here:

    I'm running a DD 16" mid-gas with an H2 buffer and run XM193 as well as PMC (Hot Shot) I think is what it was called - rebranded PMC is what it was, 55gr.

    The gun has just under 1200 through it and has only hiccuped once, when I was shooting some horribly under-powered ammo (reloads) that I got in a trade. (I mean, like, almost sounded like a squib going off underpowered)

    I know that the H2 is really pushing it for the gun, but it runs like a champ. The saving grace may be that I ran the first 500 in a Vickers class using XM193, so maybe that broke it in?
    Semper Paratus Certified AR15 Armorer

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    Seems as though standards are becoming more and more common in midlength gas systems. When they first hit the market, it seemed some of the 14.5s in midlength configuration were having cycling issues. Other then that, I've had no issues with BCM, DD, or Rainier (who outsources to DD, not sure if they spec them different or not).
    Acta Non Verba

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    I've got 5 mid-length guns: 3 KAC SR-15 (two 16" and a 14.5"), a BCM 14.5" and a Noveske 16". I've never had a gas issue with any of them, but I shoot only XM193, M855 or Hornady match .223. The SR-15 gas system is more like the Noveske "intermediate" system, in that it is longer than the mid-length of BCM, Noveske or DD, but shorter than rifle-length.

    I run the Noveske with an A2 stock/buffer and the BCM with an H buffer. Interestingly, the 16" SR15 comes from the factory with a carbine buffer, but the 14.5" SR15 comes with an H2 buffer.
    By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest. - Confucius

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