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Thread: Army to Re-Bid M4 Contract

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BH321 View Post
    Colt up until the last procurement contract was the sole supplier of the M4 and M4A1 carbines. The contract that Colt is disputing is for new standard M4 carbines with the option of procuring M4A1 variants as well if I recall correctly. When this contract was originally bid the plan was to have both the Individual Carbine Competition and the improved M4 program running concurrently, with these M4s forming a stop gap. However, I believe that the improved M4 program has pretty much been killed at this point while the ICC is continuing onwards and is already in its second stage.
    Who do you get your information from?

    The Army is still focusing on the PiP, first stage was making M4's into M4A1's and procurring more m4A1's. second stage was a BCG and Forward hand rail PiP, out of 11 BCG entries none offered any upgrade, this includes the LMT, and LWRCI's super special one piece carrier with their fancy NiB coating. Under adverse conditions they did not perform better than the standard.

    The handguard PiP is still ongoing with the first part of testing completing soon.
    Last edited by sinlessorrow; 10-03-12 at 09:46.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  2. #12
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    I'm sure LWRCi will get the contract. They make the best guns ever ever ever and have great customer service too!
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    I'm sure LWRCi will get the contract. They make the best guns ever ever ever and have great customer service too!
    Their super fancy one piece BCG with its fancy coating apparently did not even live up to the standard BCG in the trials.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    Who do you get your information from?

    The Army is still focusing on the PiP, first stage was making M4's into M4A1's and procurring more m4A1's. second stage was a BCG and Forward hand rail PiP, out of 11 BCG entries none offered any upgrade, this includes the LMT, and LWRCI's super special one piece carrier with their fancy NiB coating. Under adverse conditions they did not perform better than the standard.

    The handguard PiP is still ongoing with the first part of testing completing soon.
    Ah, I thought when they killed the BCG group portion they had killed the entire program more or less. I didn't realize they were still working on the handguards as I hadn't heard anything about them recently. My apologies.
    "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BH321 View Post
    Ah, I thought when they killed the BCG group portion they had killed the entire program more or less. I didn't realize they were still working on the handguards as I hadn't heard anything about them recently. My apologies.
    Only reason the BCG PiP was cancelled is because nothing was an improvement. The forward handguard PiP is still ongoing and I would be willing to bet it will show something, showing the improvements of FF over the M4 RAS will be easy.

    From PEO

    PHASE II: Exploring Improvements
    PM SW completed its best value M4 bolt and bolt carrier assembly competition in April 2012, though the competition was scheduled to conclude in summer 2013. More than six months of testing and evaluation determined that none of the 11 competing designs met the overall requirements outlined in the solicitation. The M4’s current bolt and bolt carrier assembly outperforms the competing designs in the areas of reliability, durability, and high-temp/low-temp tests. The Army saved nearly $2 million as a result of the early completion of the competition.

    Kinda shows how those fancy coatings like NiB are not all they say thy are.
    Last edited by sinlessorrow; 10-03-12 at 11:20.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by fdxpilot View Post
    Tell me about it. The Air Force will probably never get another refuelling tanker because of the Boeing-Airbus rivalry, and the 20 yr old KC135s I flew 30 years ago will be around for another 50 years.
    Nope, Boeing got the contract on the third round (Airbus did not protest it) and they have been ramping up to get production started. Not sure when they will be delivered, probably will take several years from now.

  7. #17
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    Also keep in mind that Colt got the new M240 contract and from my understanding would be at manafacturing capacity just from this. This is why they didn't undercut Remington in the first place while also receiving 5% royalties from Remington for every M4A1 the Govt. bought.

    Dave

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post

    Kinda shows how those fancy coatings like NiB are not all they say thy are.
    You can test anything and have it come out with the results you want. Guys who are career military, and guys who have been involved in large testing programs understand where I'm going with this.

    An "individual" made a comment to me after the XM-8 program died that you could test anything against the M4 right now, and the Army would have the M4 win.
    Last edited by Stickman; 10-03-12 at 20:03.
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


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  9. #19
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    Another comment which was made to me by knowledgeable people was that the Army wasn't going to change weapons in the middle of a war, and that after the war was over, there wasn't going to be any need to change.
    Last edited by Stickman; 10-03-12 at 20:05.
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


    Flickr Tumblr Facebook Instagram RECOILMAGAZINE OFF GRID RECOIL WEB

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    You can test anything and have it come out with the results you want. Guys who are career military, and guys who have been involved in large testing programs understand where I'm going with this.

    An "individual" made a comment to me after the XM-8 program died that you could test anything against the M4 right now, and the Army would have the M4 win.
    Same could be said for anything though, if you look at it like that no testing on this earth is fair and everyone cheats for their benefit. As to the XM8 program everything I have read on practically every website has said the gun sucked.

    Company X wants to show their gun is better can company Y's, so they set it up to show this. on the other hand company Y has a test showing their weapon is better than company X, so how do we exactly go about finding something better when everything can be tainted and probably will be? even outside sources can favor one to the other and lean the test that way. This falls into the whole new BCG, Each company says how their is better in their testing, yet in military testing this was proven false. So who do we believe and how do we find the truth?

    I can also say that personal experiences with those fancy coatings has been less than stellar leading to my BCG completely seizing up, this never happened on a standard BCG. This video demonstrates what I had happen with those fancy coatings.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flju7NvWJ3c

    I will also say that I do not see the top names in the industry pushing the fancy coatings, most still use standard phosphate so that is also telling.
    Last edited by sinlessorrow; 10-03-12 at 23:17.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

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