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Thread: Army to Re-Bid M4 Contract

  1. #121
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    This is just another example of what should be a simple process ( closed bidding) being turned into a government circus.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Turn over? No. The Govt (in 2012) got the right to be able to give companies the TDP so that they could bid on a M4 contract. The company that wins (less Colt) has to pay a royalty (to Colt) on each gun (I believe).


    C4
    I thought we were talking about the company that wins the IC. I think I got confused lol. Just looked back and yep, I saw KAC and thought we were discussing why they didn go for the IC. My bad.
    Last edited by sinlessorrow; 02-24-13 at 17:07.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  3. #123
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    The company that makes the M4 carbine should:
    1) Make the carbine to Mil Spec
    2) Have the production capability to meet the needs of the military
    3) Be the lowest bidder during the initial process

    Which company gets the contract should make no difference to anyone outside of the bidding process so long as our military personnel have a reliable carbine to use in combat. Having the most lawyers to challenge the loss of a bid should not be a prerequisite for getting the contract.
    Last edited by T2C; 02-24-13 at 17:10.
    Train 2 Win

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    I thought we were talking about the company that wins the IC. I think I got confused lol. Just looked back and yep, I saw KAC and thought we were discussing why they didn go for the IC. My bad.
    No worries. I figured one of us was confused.


    C4

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by shootist1970 View Post
    Let us in vest in cheese!!! That way whichever company whines next can have cheese with their whine!!

    Actually, i could care less who builds them since whoever it is will have to build them military technical specs.

    My problem is the people getting screwed here are the tropps who need them and aren't getting them while the latest "Whine" waits for a Judge or arbitrator in the mood to hear it.
    The problem that the govt needs to fix in the procurement process is theres almost no cost to a company that protests a contract award. We see a lot of it in the aviation side of the house. They lose the contract then they use salaried in house lawyers to put together the protest which then has to be responded to by the govt. Their worst case if they lose again is exactly where they started, namely not having a contract. Best case is they get another bite of the apple.

    There need to be bidding provisions that allow the protesting company to be charged for failed protests in some way. That would cut a lot of the crap out.

  6. #126
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    I knew that. So does the winning company turn over their TDP to the military? Seems like a pretty shitty deal to me.
    My guess is that it depends largely on the wording in the contracts. Colt managed to hold on to the TDP for the M4 until just recently, when they had to give it to the .mil.

    Turn over? No. The Govt (in 2012) got the right to be able to give companies the TDP so that they could bid on a M4 contract. The company that wins (less Colt) has to pay a royalty (to Colt) on each gun (I believe).
    Yes, I believe Colt will still be getting royalties on each gun produced since it is their design. And while I don't know the numbers involved here, I'd venture to say that earning the royalties may actually be more profitable than winning the contract and producing the guns. With a ~ $600 unit price for each carbine, the margins must be pretty slim.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova3930 View Post
    The problem that the govt needs to fix in the procurement process is theres almost no cost to a company that protests a contract award. We see a lot of it in the aviation side of the house. They lose the contract then they use salaried in house lawyers to put together the protest which then has to be responded to by the govt. Their worst case if they lose again is exactly where they started, namely not having a contract. Best case is they get another bite of the apple.

    There need to be bidding provisions that allow the protesting company to be charged for failed protests in some way. That would cut a lot of the crap out.
    That would be a very good start toward improving the bidding process and it would save the taxpayers a lot of money.
    Train 2 Win

  8. #128
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    Well Colt's protest may have upset the apple cart but in the end the result is the M4 will be built by FN instead of Remhamster!
    US Army 1966-69, VFW Life Member, Retired Geek

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    If you have NEVER (really) sold AR's to the public, what did you care?


    C4
    Just seeing that a the public side of things has a lot of potential for money versus the Military, where there are set numbers. Just trying to understand why limit, or "paint your self into a corner"? What happens when they don't order.

    Not that my questions warrants an answer, it is just a curosity.
    Date: June 9, 1776
    Objects of the most stupendous magnitude, and measure in which the lives and liberties of millions yet unborn are intimately interested, are now before us. We are in the very midst of a revolution the most complete, unexpected and remarkable of any in the history of nations.

    http://m.ruvr.ru/data/2012/09/28/1287679312/4Military.jpg

  10. #130
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    As long as it's built right, I don't care what roll mark is on the side.

    Good for FN, and Colt still gets paid. So everyone will be fine.
    We are momentary by design.

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