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Thread: Army to Re-Bid M4 Contract

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by midSCarolina View Post
    If we can't even buy a new full-auto weapon I can't imagine the gov't letting civilians get anywhere close to a directed energy weapon.
    FWIW, there are civilians building working rail guns, although they are connected to massive capacitor banks that aren't exactly portable. Not sure about the legal implications of this, but there are some garage-built units out there.

  2. #42
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    Colt is manned by United Auto Workers, Remington by United Mine Workers.

    Remington bids and wins. Colt complains because they overbid. Sour grapes. Congress responds with "WTF?"

    If the individual carbine has to meet a TDP and MILSPEC acceptance testing compliance standards the bottom line is Colt saw potential bankruptcy and now knows what Remington is willing to take as far as profit margin per weapon.

    Colt's senators are Liebermann and Blumenthal, Remington's are Shumer and Gillibrand -- all Democrats in union states

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinister View Post
    Colt is manned by United Auto Workers, Remington by United Mine Workers.

    Remington bids and wins. Colt complains because they overbid. Sour grapes. Congress responds with "WTF?"

    If the individual carbine has to meet a TDP and MILSPEC acceptance testing compliance standards the bottom line is Colt saw potential bankruptcy and now knows what Remington is willing to take as far as profit margin per weapon.

    Colt's senators are Liebermann and Blumenthal, Remington's are Shumer and Gillibrand -- all Democrats in union states
    It is my understanding that the Colt bid and Remy bid were VERY close to one another. The Govt then examined the fact that Remy is not setup to do this kind of volume and honestly doesn't have the expertise either. So in the end, the value to the Govt just isn't there and it is worth it to pay $50-$70 more and have a company that knows what they are doing make the guns.

    We shall see....


    C4

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    Quote Originally Posted by fdxpilot View Post
    Tell me about it. The Air Force will probably never get another refuelling tanker because of the Boeing-Airbus rivalry, and the 20 yr old KC135s I flew 30 years ago will be around for another 50 years.
    Don't worry about it. I flew a 1957 model -135 last night, she hummed along code 1 all night.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    It is my understanding that the Colt bid and Remy bid were VERY close to one another. The Govt then examined the fact that Remy is not setup to do this kind of volume and honestly doesn't have the expertise either. So in the end, the value to the Govt just isn't there and it is worth it to pay $50-$70 more and have a company that knows what they are doing make the guns.

    We shall see....


    C4
    Good information, makes perfect sense.

    As you say we will see how it works out.
    "Never confuse movement with action."
    Ernest Hemingway

    Join the NRA - protect our 2nd Amendment rights.

  6. #46
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    I wouldn't make the assumption Remington doesn't know how to manufacture to military specifications.

    US-contract Mosin-Nagant
    M1917
    Rem 870
    870 Modular Weapon System
    M40 (Vietnam era)
    M24
    M2010

    As well as having run the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant.

    Should Remington fail to produce to the TDP and MILSPEC they risk default and never getting another military contract again. Bad form.

    If Remington did not have the ability to earn the contract it would never have been awarded. This was a touchdown called back on a video re-play AFTER the game was done and Super Bowl rings given.

    How many companies in the USA (and offshore) have produced M16s and M4s, and how many have knocked off ARs and M4geries?

    It's manufacturing, not rocket surgery.

    Light reading from a second source (keep in mind it's from Gannett): http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gears...ith-remington/

    An extract: "According to the Department of the Army’s Chief of Legislative Liaison, the Army today executed a delivery order to buy 24,000 M4A1s worth $16,163,252.07. The rifles will be made at Remington’s factory in Ilion, N.Y., from the Colt technical data package and will cost about $673.10 a copy. That’s a significantly lower price than the final order of Colt-produced M4A1s the government paid $1221 for in a 2010 contract."

    The Army's agreement clause with Colt says the service can seek a second source if Colt's capacity is near maxed out -- which it supposedly is since they're now making M240 machineguns (ironically off FN's TDP).

  7. #47
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    I wonder about the manufacturing capability. Remington and Bushmaster are owned by the same company and their numbers look much higher than Colt. I would quess military contracts are not included in these numbers??? David

    http://www.atf.gov/statistics/downlo...ort-report.pdf
    Last edited by dwhitehorne; 10-11-12 at 17:44.

  8. #48
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    It seems like there is always rumor and talke of changes, but it seems that nothing does ever really change. I will wait and see, but not in anticipation

  9. #49
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    The ATF report numbers should include all arms manufactured.

    My understanding is all "Bushmaster" marked Freedom Group guns are made in the Remington Ilion plant. Wyndham Weaponry (the "Old Bushmaster") is back in their old factory with their original machinery.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinister View Post
    I wouldn't make the assumption Remington doesn't know how to manufacture to military specifications.

    US-contract Mosin-Nagant
    M1917
    Rem 870
    870 Modular Weapon System
    M40 (Vietnam era)
    M24
    M2010

    As well as having run the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant.

    Should Remington fail to produce to the TDP and MILSPEC they risk default and never getting another military contract again. Bad form.

    If Remington did not have the ability to earn the contract it would never have been awarded. This was a touchdown called back on a video re-play AFTER the game was done and Super Bowl rings given.

    How many companies in the USA (and offshore) have produced M16s and M4s, and how many have knocked off ARs and M4geries?

    It's manufacturing, not rocket surgery.

    Light reading from a second source (keep in mind it's from Gannett): http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gears...ith-remington/

    An extract: "According to the Department of the Army’s Chief of Legislative Liaison, the Army today executed a delivery order to buy 24,000 M4A1s worth $16,163,252.07. The rifles will be made at Remington’s factory in Ilion, N.Y., from the Colt technical data package and will cost about $673.10 a copy. That’s a significantly lower price than the final order of Colt-produced M4A1s the government paid $1221 for in a 2010 contract."

    The Army's agreement clause with Colt says the service can seek a second source if Colt's capacity is near maxed out -- which it supposedly is since they're now making M240 machineguns (ironically off FN's TDP).

    I think they can produce the gun, but not in the volume needed and that is apparently why the contract was re-bid.

    Yes, the prices are now lower and Colt's bid was very close to Remy's bid.


    C4

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