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Thread: SBR build

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rackham1 View Post
    Based on what appears to be your knowledge level... yes. And that wasn't meant to be a jab, it was an honest statement. You've got a lot of great info down cold, but certain gaps in your posts make me think you're still a little "new".

    For example, you've mentioned several times about cutting down barrels. Not sure why you think this necessary because you can acquire factory barrels in just about any length to meet your reasonable desires. Specific to your question above... buy a 14.5 from BCM and have them pin their A2X flash hider before shipping. Piece of cake. I'm sure you have the knack to "build" (I don't like that term) your own custom AR, but again, you'd be complicating things for no apparent gain.

    Am I right to assume this will be your first actual AR? (Shooting your dad's doesn't count) What is the intended purpose? Chances are the SBR w/ perm'd suppressor combo is not your best starting point. I think you're right to steer back to a factory 16" option.

    Good luck.
    Thanks for the reply bud. I've shot the AR a lot, but yes you are correct in me being 'new' as you put it. The only reason I mentioned cutting the barrel so much is after doing a little bit of research on the internet (as I said in my first post) it appears the general consensus is for the price the 6920 is a hard rifle to beat.. and most of the ones I read about people have cut the barrel down to 14.5 and pinned. I would prefer to have the shortest package possible.. preference, I do understand the performance limitations and like I said I'm not worried about it. When I do an accurate rifle I'll pay more attention to those details. I'm looking for a good personal defense rifle, and would like something in a smaller more maneuverable package. I am also under the impression that cutting a barrel down would be the cheaper alternative to getting a new barrel and having that put on the rifle. I was also doing some reading about gas ports not needing to be resized if the barrel has been cut.

    Some questions.. why go with BCM's 14.5 barrels as opposed to other companies such as Noveske? They seem to be renowned for quality of barrels and I have seen many swear by them. For a 14.5 barrel would I have to run a carbine length gas system if I put a 12'' rail on the rifle? Or would I be able to run a mid-length? I didn't really mean put the rifle together piece by piece, but would it be better to buy a complete rifle as opposed to different upper and lower receiver's? And is there any need to take a look at the .300blk for the 14.5 barrel?

    Thanks again
    Last edited by john_w; 10-04-12 at 22:18.

  2. #22
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    Your best bet at this point is to just buy a complete upper that comes to 16" with your choice of mounts for the can you want to use.
    It is cheaper unless you already have all the tools needed (vice big enough to handle the barrel install, torque wrench, upper clamshell block,all the small tools and any special tools for your rail), and then when you get to an SBR friendly state, decide if you want to cut the barrel or get an new upper/barrel.

    As for which company to buy from, that is up to you, and what options you want. I have a LWRCi piston upper, and 2 Noveske uppers right now. When I get around to SBRing my 6920, I'm going to source a factory Colt 14.5 barrel to make an all Colt M4gery, as I have all the tools to do a barrel swap.

    BCM is a great choice, if they offer you what you are looking for. I just built a lightweight gun using their 16" upper.
    If you want a Switchblock function, go with Noveske.
    Rainier Arms is another good choice,
    But the big thing is to make sure you know what materials are being used, an that the company has a great reputation.

    As for buying a complete gun, seperate upper and lower, or stripped lowers, you generally don't save any money going the complete upper/lower route. If you can get a good deal on a stripped lower, and the shipping and transfer fees are reasonable (if ordered online), you can save a little, as you avoid paying the FET tax on the lower as a complete firearm.
    But you really have to get a good deal on shipping and the transfer fee to make it work..

    Good luck in whatever you decide to do..
    Last edited by Hydguy; 10-05-12 at 00:47.

  3. #23
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    This was a really helpful post for understanding what you're after. You covered a lot of ground in your questions and the best thing I can say is you should spend a few late nights perusing the stickies and old posts, and eventually you'll get the answers you're looking for and then some. Some quick humble opinions from me, though:

    Quote Originally Posted by john_w View Post
    The only reason I mentioned cutting the barrel so much is after doing a little bit of research on the internet (as I said in my first post) it appears the general consensus is for the price the 6920 is a hard rifle to beat.. and most of the ones I read about people have cut the barrel down to 14.5 and pinned.
    Yep, general consensus that a 6920 is where it's at. I don't know of many people cutting them down to 14.5 though. There are, however, factory-built 14.5 options that are on par with the 6920 so you wouldn't need to cut anything (cutting a barrel costs good money). BCM, LMT, Noveske, and Rainier are the ones I'd spend time on, although I'm sure there are others. Some can be had with flash hiders perm'd from the factory... some you'd need to have a shop pin for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by john_w View Post
    I would prefer to have the shortest package possible.. preference, I do understand the performance limitations and like I said I'm not worried about it. When I do an accurate rifle I'll pay more attention to those details. I'm looking for a good personal defense rifle, and would like something in a smaller more maneuverable package.
    Copy that. I can't argue your desires so if SBR and suppressor meets that need then rock on. I started down the SBR path then realized a suppressor (for me) is more valuable as a first/only NFA item, but then stopped both when I started to wonder if I wanted to get on another government "list". Personally, for your stated purpose, I think jumping to SBR w/ suppressor right out the gates is more trouble then you really want... and really expensive. I'd rather commit less money to getting functionally armed earlier with a normal 14.5 (pinned) or 16.

    Quote Originally Posted by john_w View Post
    I am also under the impression that cutting a barrel down would be the cheaper alternative to getting a new barrel and having that put on the rifle. I was also doing some reading about gas ports not needing to be resized if the barrel has been cut.
    Almost certainly not... at least for the type of specs that I'd be interested in (which are admittedly very boring, very utilitarian specs). You're probably best off getting a factory 14.5... or 12.5... or 11.5... etc. I can't speak to the gas port thing, I have no knowledge in that regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by john_w View Post
    Some questions.. why go with BCM's 14.5 barrels as opposed to other companies such as Noveske? They seem to be renowned for quality of barrels and I have seen many swear by them.
    No reason I picked BCM in my earlier post other than I happen to know they offer pinned flash hiders on 14.5 barrels as on option on their website, and I happen to like them. My "ranch rifle" is a BCM 14.5 midlength with a pinned FH and my wife's is a BCM 16 SS midlength. I've also had Bushmaster (ugh) and White Oak. Noveske certainly seems awesome, but I'm not a good enough shooter to make the extra cost worth it to me. But if you end up picking Noveske I will be slightly jealous of you.

    Quote Originally Posted by john_w View Post
    For a 14.5 barrel would I have to run a carbine length gas system if I put a 12'' rail on the rifle? Or would I be able to run a mid-length?
    I assume you mean a 12" rail or tube that runs over a low profile gas block. If so, then carbine or midlength will both work. The 12" rail will cover both. If that's not what you mean then PM me because no one will want to see this thread bogged down even more.

    Quote Originally Posted by john_w View Post
    I didn't really mean put the rifle together piece by piece, but would it be better to buy a complete rifle as opposed to different upper and lower receiver's?
    Well you could put it together piece by piece if you wanted! I personally don't find that gratifying (although only done it once) but some do. But complete versus upper/lower... flip a coin. Both of my current rifles are lowers I assembled topped with factory uppers. I liked spreading the cost out. Others like manufacturer warranty/support. Sometimes you can save money by separating... sometimes it's cheaper and easier to buy complete. Sorta up to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by john_w View Post
    And is there any need to take a look at the .300blk for the 14.5 barrel?
    Is there a need to look at 300 BLK? Yes. Although I'm not sure what you mean by "for the 14.5 barrel". I recently started salivating over 300 BLK and my dad just bought one (the bastard). I'm intrigued and want to give it a try. That said, I think I'd rather have a solid 5.56 as my first/only go-to carbine. Then just buy a 300 BLK upper later for the range or hunting.

    These are my opinions only. I am NOT an expert, or an armorer, or an industry professional, and my advice may be worth only what you paid for it. Feel free to PM me when you get to Fairchild. I live across the border but visit Spokane from time to time, and there's a range in Mica where you could show me whatever AR you eventually got yourself. Cheers.
    Last edited by rackham1; 10-05-12 at 01:16.

  4. #24
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    One thing about the 300BLK is that there is not a lot of commercial loads for it, and unless you want to get into reloading, you will most likely have to order ammo on-line. I have not seen any factor ammo on the shelves for sale yet, but I haven't looked much. I can say that most smaller gun stores will probably only carry a limited amount of it at a time, if at all, and forget getting it at Wally World.

    It is a great performing round, from all reports, but it's still a niche round.

    I'd stick with a 5.56 for your first, get your feet wet in regards to what you want, get familiar with the weapon, and then look at going 300blk...
    5.56 is not really expensive, and is still quite plentyful, and affordable. And the weight choices are pretty broad, so you can buy some different loads and figure out what works beast for your gun/wallet combo..

  5. #25
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    I feel like Colt would be the more expensive route, and unless I went with the 6920 I would probably try to go for BCM or ST. I have emailed the folks over at BCM and they informed me they are back logged pretty badly right now. They said they also couldn't do anything custom and I would have to go off of what they currently have. Basics of what I am now looking at are:

    -An AR15 with 14.5'' barrel and pinned FH. I am thinking about going with Surefire for this.. Unless you guys have a better recommendation on Can manufacturers. It sounds to me after reading that no other Can will allow you to maintain the same (or close to the same) Zero as Surefire.

    -Mid-length gas system for reliability. The question about the gas system's had nothing to do with the type of rail I want to run. I in my lack of knowledge did not know if a mid length gas system could be run on a 14.5'' M4 profile barrel.

    -DD 12'' RIS II

    -Still up in the air for the stock, but I am considering the SOPMOD, the VLTOR MOD, and the TI-7. Any recommendations? I know it will fall to my preference.. each of the stocks are very similar in design.. range in price I don't know how they compare to each other.

    -For the barrel I have been thinking about 1:8 twist for a while. Out of the 14.5 am I going to have a real advantage over the 1:7 in stabilizing heavier rounds?

    Do you guys have any other recommended accessories for the receiver group that I should take a look at.


    For my statements about the 300blk. I understand this round was designed to be shot from shorter barreled rifles. The short casings and less powder will completely burn by the time it exacts a barrel.. an issue the .223 apparently has. Since the optimal barrel for the 300 blk is 8.5-9'' in a 14.5-16'' barrel will there be a decrease in pressure and drop in velocity? As a defense rifle I don't feel like I need to reach out and touch someone and I know that I'll be good out to 300m and more.. ballistically I just don't know if it would suit my needs better than .223 will out of a 14.5.. please correct my lack of ballistic understanding =P


    You guys have really got me thinking about BCM haha. I would probably go with them if I can do what I want easily. Would buying an upper and a lower from BCM be about the same as buying a complete rifle from them? The only reason I'm being that difficult is when it comes to installing things like rails and stocks. They don't offer anything with the RIS II on it.. so I'd have to throw that on myself. Do you guys not recommend someone like me doing so? I'd prefer to learn and save money on a smith (even though it'd cost me in tools) But if I had the tools and learned what I need to do it would save me money on future projects.
    Last edited by john_w; 10-05-12 at 15:32.

  6. #26
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    The loophole you are looking for is a 1-way ticket out of WA. Either move, or accept the limitations of the situation you are in.

    That said, I think you would be happy with a 14.5" pinned rifle. Here is mine:



    I have since made these decisions:

    T1 2 MOA micro over M4S
    LaRue index clips
    M600C over M300A
    Bought a 10.5" upper and went the SBR route (not an option for you right now, and the 14.5" is PLENTY! serviceable).
    Last edited by WS6; 10-05-12 at 19:17.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by john_w View Post
    I feel like Colt would be the more expensive route, and unless I went with the 6920 I would probably try to go for BCM or ST. I have emailed the folks over at BCM and they informed me they are back logged pretty badly right now. They said they also couldn't do anything custom and I would have to go off of what they currently have. Basics of what I am now looking at are:

    -An AR15 with 14.5'' barrel and pinned FH. I am thinking about going with Surefire for this.. Unless you guys have a better recommendation on Can manufacturers. It sounds to me after reading that no other Can will allow you to maintain the same (or close to the same) Zero as Surefire.

    -Mid-length gas system for reliability. The question about the gas system's had nothing to do with the type of rail I want to run. I in my lack of knowledge did not know if a mid length gas system could be run on a 14.5'' M4 profile barrel.

    -DD 12'' RIS II

    -Still up in the air for the stock, but I am considering the SOPMOD, the VLTOR MOD, and the TI-7. Any recommendations? I know it will fall to my preference.. each of the stocks are very similar in design.. range in price I don't know how they compare to each other.

    -For the barrel I have been thinking about 1:8 twist for a while. Out of the 14.5 am I going to have a real advantage over the 1:7 in stabilizing heavier rounds?

    Do you guys have any other recommended accessories for the receiver group that I should take a look at.


    For my statements about the 300blk. I understand this round was designed to be shot from shorter barreled rifles. The short casings and less powder will completely burn by the time it exacts a barrel.. an issue the .223 apparently has. Since the optimal barrel for the 300 blk is 8.5-9'' in a 14.5-16'' barrel will there be a decrease in pressure and drop in velocity? As a defense rifle I don't feel like I need to reach out and touch someone and I know that I'll be good out to 300m and more.. ballistically I just don't know if it would suit my needs better than .223 will out of a 14.5.. please correct my lack of ballistic understanding =P


    You guys have really got me thinking about BCM haha. I would probably go with them if I can do what I want easily. Would buying an upper and a lower from BCM be about the same as buying a complete rifle from them? The only reason I'm being that difficult is when it comes to installing things like rails and stocks. They don't offer anything with the RIS II on it.. so I'd have to throw that on myself. Do you guys not recommend someone like me doing so? I'd prefer to learn and save money on a smith (even though it'd cost me in tools) But if I had the tools and learned what I need to do it would save me money on future projects.
    No, the 300 AAC Blackout continues to build velocity until about 18-20", from what I understand, although it isn't much of an increase, it will not be counter-productive solely on that front.

    The 300AAC works best 200 yards and in IMO due to its lower velocity. It will work out to 300 yards, though, but much further than that and you are correcting for drop a good bit and you better be good at ranging.

    Go with the 1/7 twist. It will allow you to see if 70gr TSX works well in your weapon, etc. and a little extra insurance through a suppressor is always nice. That will allow for 2 full rotations of the bullet in the barrel.

  8. #28
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    John. Read more. There is a TON of info here.
    "Real men have always needed to know what time it is so they are at the airfield on time, pumping rounds into savages at the right time, etc. Being able to see such in the dark while light weights were comfy in bed without using a light required luminous material." -Originally Posted by ramairthree

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcvet View Post
    John. Read more. There is a TON of info here.
    Which sections should I look in?
    "Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People."
    — Tench Coxe, 1788.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by john_w View Post
    Which sections should I look in?
    -AR General Discussion
    -AR Technical

    For starters. And be sure to look several pages back. The stickies are also there for a reason. Anything you don't know, use the search button, and if that doesn't answer your quesition, then ask.

    When you want to delve into some of the finer points, terminal ballistics is good and the lights and optics sections have some good stuff.

    As for your desired choice for an upper, any reason you are set on the DD RIS II?

    Look at this upper: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-1...fh%20ddl12.htm

    Mate this upper with a CH, BCG, BUIS, and a lower of your chice and you are in business. Not sure if Grant has BCM blem lowers still in stock, but those would be a good choice.

    I would also go with 1/7 barrel.

    Also, do you have any budget for your build? It may help guide some of the suggestions people provide.

    If price were no option, I would say one of the new KAC 14.5s

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