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Thread: Lowers to avoid

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by polymorpheous View Post
    You understand what forum you are posting in right?
    This board is typically not a fit and finish board.

    Rollmark be damned, CMMG has a track record for garbage.

    I personally have seen an upper which was bored off center.

    A track record for garbage? LOL

    I've been involved with AR's on the non-mil side for over a decade now, and have never heard of this supposed 'track record'.

    Back when they started to do full uppers and what not, they were the only folks who were doing all 1/7 barrels. No special orders, limited runs, or any crap like that.

    They started off like everyone else, being eyed with speculation, but did a good job of building up their reputation. Way above Armalite, Bushmaster, Olympic, and so forth. As for now, they are still a good step above the ones listed, but they are not Noveske, or BCM.
    Funny story.. I ordered a complete BCG from BCM. When inspecting it, I found a huge burr in it at the tail. Contacted BCM, sent some detailed pics, and was told that they couldn't see anything, but I was free to send it back to them so they could inspect it, and make a decision on whether or not to replace it. but I'm not running around bashing BCM now am I? Not at all. This is the first time I have ever mentioned it. BTW, I did the same thing with it as I did the CMMG blem lower. Hit it with a file...

    They sold these lowers to distributors AS IS. NO WARRANTY. You seem to have trouble understanding that part, and for that, I'm pretty sorry. You have some need to bash a company that was up front when they sold these lowers. You don't like their response. Too bad. Get over it.
    As for the upper you are talking about, I will just say that everyone makes a lemon from time to time.
    Last edited by Hydguy; 10-10-12 at 10:56.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjacobs View Post
    Funny story about CMMG and their "blems" and "bargain basement" stuff. I live in St. Louis about an hour from CMMG.

    Buddy of mine and his dad ended up buying the "bargain basement" ARs a few years ago against my advice.

    They head to the range(I did not get to inspect these guns prior to them going to the range). I tell my buddy, put one round in the gun and shoot it. Then put 2 rounds in, then 5.

    His gun is good to go(function wise). His dads gun doubles the 2 rounds and then sends all 5 rounds down with 1 pull of the trigger. They quickly pack up and leave.

    Calls CMMG, who tells him he's out of luck, no warranty, etc... Buddies dad threatens to get ATF involved for selling him a machine gun illegally. They VERY RELUCTANTLY decide that they will give him a new gun.

    I knew not to do business with them, but seriously, they basically were telling him he was out of luck when they had sold him a gun that was out of spec and was basically only running on auto and all but refused to give him a new gun until he threatened to get the ATF involved.

    So its not hard for me to believe that CMMG told this poster to pound sand when his blem lower was unusable.
    Funny stuff.... Buys a 'bargain bin' rifle, which CMMG used to do with regularity, knowing that it was a used gun, and most likely a heavily used gun, and then gets all wound up over a simple issue that many people have had to deal with in well used rifles?

    Wow is about all I can say....

    I bought a pre-ban Olympic arms back during the ban. It was used. It doubled. I didn't call the guy I got it from and threaten to call the ATF.
    I replaced the parts. Simply part of the cost of owning a gun. Trigger surfaces don't stay pristine forever....

  3. #63
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    Lemon you say?
    They also had issues with barrels with out of concentric bores.

    They HAD a good reputation.
    Not anymore.
    You can keep your CMMG.
    There are better options out there now.
    I won't miss them.
    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    Anybody that owns or sells pistol versions of assault rifles is a bottom feeder, irregardless of the ban status of certain ammunition.

    They are illigetimate weapons that have no real purpose other than to attract retards to the gun community.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by polymorpheous View Post
    Lemon you say?
    They also had issues with barrels with out of concentric bores.

    They HAD a good reputation.
    Not anymore.
    You can keep your CMMG.
    There are better options out there now.
    I won't miss them.
    I did happen to say that there were better options, and named a few, but they are still way above DPMS Bushmaster, Windham, Delton, and a whole lot of others....
    My CMMG lowers are going nowhere, trust me.

    You seem to still think about them a lot for not missing them.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hydguy View Post
    Funny stuff.... Buys a 'bargain bin' rifle, which CMMG used to do with regularity, knowing that it was a used gun, and most likely a heavily used gun, and then gets all wound up over a simple issue that many people have had to deal with in well used rifles?

    Wow is about all I can say....

    I bought a pre-ban Olympic arms back during the ban. It was used. It doubled. I didn't call the guy I got it from and threaten to call the ATF.
    I replaced the parts. Simply part of the cost of owning a gun. Trigger surfaces don't stay pristine forever....
    I think you need to get off the CMMG sack.

    My buddy and his dad knew what they were buying. And those guns aren't(or weren't) sold as heavily used guns if I remember correctly(they havent had them in a while, gee, I wonder why)... Test fires or what not was included in the description. Enough usage to **** up a disconnector or sear, I dont think so. The guns in question didnt look heavily used, they actually looked new or barely used when I inspected them(after their first range trip). You would also think CMMG would test fire these guns before letting them go from their shop(which would have shown the problem). This isnt like he bought it, put 500-1000 rounds through it and THEN it started doing it. First mag through the gun. Regardless of whether its used or not, a gun should NEVER change hands if something in it is ****ed up unless both parties KNOW that a certain part is or could be ****ed up. But when a manufacturer(not just a dealer, but THE manufacturer) sells something they are putting their approval on it that its function is good even if its a rebuild or re manufacture or whatever. The function was not good.

    But I digress, yes you are right, its a LPK that needed to be changed, no big deal to people like us. To people like my buddies dad, all he knew was they sold him a gun that was ****ed up(and ****ed up in a BIG way).

    Overall though it was how CMMG dealt with it that burned me and my buddy and his dad up.
    "hey, you sold me a machine gun"
    "not our problem"
    "well its going to be once I call my attorney and the ATF and tell them you sold me a machine gun"
    "ok, I GUESS we will take care of it"

    It was like my buddies dad did something to the gun to make it run full auto and then blame CMMG. He doesnt know shit about AR's and hadnt touched it(I dont know if he had even cleaned it). He asked me what I would do and I said take it back. He called and explained to them what was up and that was the response he got(basically). If he had told me "well, I looked online and found this cool tutorial for polishing up the trigger parts" I would have pointed him to a website to order a new LPK. But since the gun came from CMMG like that, I said, their problem, let them deal with it.

    Sorry enough of the CMMG bitchfest.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hydguy View Post
    And again, these lowers were CLEARLY marked and sold AS IS as blemished lowers.

    When sold AS IS, it is pretty simple: No warranty. Buyer beware.

    Now, we can argue what 'blemish' means all day, but it isn't solely relegated to finishes. Dimensions can fall in that category too.

    You imply that you knew there were issues when you bought your lower. I bet the anodizing looked pretty near perfect. I know mine did.
    But I also had heard about the issues, and checked the mag well prior to making the purchase.

    The bolt release roll pin hole took a little while to get done, as I believe it was slightly undersized, but with a little patience I got it in, and didn't hurt anything. Another example of a blemish.

    I didn't have the same issue with the bolt catch spring and pin, so maybe that wasn't an issue on all of them.

    However, I ordered a non blem from brownells, and it's perfect. But I paid more for it, too....

    But CMMG is far from the only company to sell blem parts and not warranty them. Hell, RRA ****ed up a large run of flat tops for the first SEGB on TOS, and claimed it was 'the new spec'!!! Not sold as blems!!Straight ****ed up. That was a case where there was recourse, as the warranty was in full effect.

    It's not in this one.

    What did you want them to do? Send you a brand new lower when you knowingly bought a blem? Address the issues that made it a blem, so that it no longer was?

    Kinda defeats the purpose of selling them off as blems, as is.
    You really need to stop. You're making yourself look foolish.

    The industry standard definition for a "blem" lower is a lower with a cosmetic defect that is otherwise in spec and fully functional. CMMG knew that, and yet they still proceeded to let grossly out of spec (non-functional as far as I'm concerned) lowers out of their facility, labeling them with what they knew was a mis-leading label.

    Besides that, there's no reason to mess around with companies that are so quick to screw over their customers. The companies I deal with (BCM, Spikes, and PSA primarily) will bend over backwards for their customers, rather than look for any excuse they can find to leave them out in the cold.
    Apparently not the owner of Spikes Tactical

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hydguy View Post
    I've been involved with AR's on the non-mil side for over a decade now, and have never heard of this supposed 'track record'.
    That's the center of gravity, right there. That sentence is, as typed, completely factual, but the problem is that time is only one factor among many that allow one to note a trend.

    Being dimensionally unsound is not cosmetic, it's just out of spec, and to call it otherwise is sophistry. Whether wonky dimensional features....ANYBODY'S....are fixable or not isn't really relevant to the thread except for the purposes of identifying that they consistently show up on Brand X or Y or Z; let's not make excuses for intentionally misleading customers.

    Blemishes are cosmetic, can be fixed with paint. They do not impede the fitment of control features and components, they just won't win Best in Show honors.

    Let's not vapor-lock on one brand, regardless of how "...one of the bestest EVAR..." their roll-marks happen to be; that's "smartest retard" material, because the best roll-mark in the world does precisely NOTHING to make up for RE threads cut with an 8* list to starboard....

    Move it along, please.
    Contractor scum, AAV

  8. #68
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    Well, getting back on topic. I know I WON'T be buying a CMMG lower!

  9. #69
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    I had three CMMG lowers. They were First's, not-2nds or blems. I paid full price for them. I don't think I ever checked magazine fit because I don't think I even got that far with them. The main probelm I had was the excessive amount of slop between the upper receiver and CMMG lower receivers. All three lowers were like this with every upper receiver I tried (BCM, DD, Noveske, LMT, JD Machine, even CMMG). I am not talking about a small amount of slop, this was a lot of slop. I've never had another receiver set with so much movement in it. It was too much for me and I sold alll three off.
    Last edited by elephantrider; 10-10-12 at 15:23.

  10. #70
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    Hydguy,

    Apparently you did not see JSantoro's post....

    My advice to you would be to read that, and then consider what you just typed.

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