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Thread: What exactly is in the Colt TDP

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Glockster View Post
    BCM is more than a Colt copyist, though. I have owned four Colt AR's and four BCM AR's at various points in my life, so I think I can make an equal comparison even though the sample size is small. I can say that I noticed more little quality control quirks (for example a pitted and refinished handguard spring on a NIB rifle) in the Colts than the BCM's.

    Both brands represent the utmost in reliability compared to say, Bushmaster, but I think BCM is superior in that they have a smaller shop where more attention is paid to each weapon.

    Just my HO.

    Yes and no. He follows the TDP (as best he can). This is why the CORE quality of his rifles is there. Then he upgrades things like grips, CH, etc.

    BCM is a MUCH smaller company and there is a real pride that the workers have there. So that means you are always going to see more attention to detail in regards to F&F and overall care of the rifles.


    C4

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    It isn't "voodoo" it is consistency and following a detailed map on how to build a gun. See, most companies are always trying to find ways to cut corners on their guns and save some coin. Colt has to follow the TDP so it is nearly impossible for them to cut the quality.

    When they do deviate from the TDP (which they do), it is because they have found a better solution that is superior.


    C4
    So lemme make sure I get this right, when Colt cuts corners, it's alright cause they found a better way to make something. However, when any other company does it, it's because they are out to make a buck by lowering the quality of their weapons?? Good Lord.

  3. #13
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    We all know that you don't like Colt so stay ut of this thread if you plan on stirring the shit pot.

    Also, Grant did not say that. Trying reading comprehension.

    Quote Originally Posted by devinsdad View Post
    So lemme make sure I get this right, when Colt cuts corners, it's alright cause they found a better way to make something. However, when any other company does it, it's because they are out to make a buck by lowering the quality of their weapons?? Good Lord.



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  4. #14
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    Excellent discussion. I like to tinker, so I guess my question would be can a rifle be built to a higher standard than the TDP?

    Let's say I use a quality Forged upper and lower. Lap the receiver face. A noveske barrel, DD Lite Rail, and a BCG BCG. DD LPK and a Geissele trigger. Sopmod stock and BCM RE, spring, and heavy buffer.

    Would there be a question of the barrel being inferior compared to Colt?

    Is the TDP a metric to use against a pure and simple battle rifle or does it translate to specialized builds?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by devinsdad View Post
    So lemme make sure I get this right, when Colt cuts corners, it's alright cause they found a better way to make something. However, when any other company does it, it's because they are out to make a buck by lowering the quality of their weapons?? Good Lord.
    Cutting corners is the incorrect term to use here. The TDP says that this part is to be made from XYZ materials. Colt found out (over thousands of guns, testing, etc) that material ABC is actually superior.

    Note, I NEVER said that material ABC was CHEAPER than material XYZ I simply said that it deviated from what the TDP called for. Remember that Colt still has to prove to the Govt that is a better option.

    So you read into it that the parts were being made cheaper. This was a poor assumption on your part.



    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 10-19-12 at 15:12.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by devinsdad View Post
    So lemme make sure I get this right, when Colt cuts corners, it's alright cause they found a better way to make something. However, when any other company does it, it's because they are out to make a buck by lowering the quality of their weapons?? Good Lord.

    The sole reason you have an account on M4C is to insist that [insert your favorite brand here] is just as good as [insert brand you cannot afford here] it seems.

    Seriously. You never have anything to add; you just try and stir shit up, arguing that RRA or whatever the case may be is the way to go, or the Springfield XD is the best thing since sliced bread, or Spike's is just as good or better than BCM, or whatever you're smoking in your pipe that particular day. Why do you visit and post here so frequently feeling the way that you do? There are many forums that would be more than happy to have another member like you.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by balloo93 View Post
    Excellent discussion. I like to tinker, so I guess my question would be can a rifle be built to a higher standard than the TDP?
    Yes and no. You will get both answers. I look at the TDP as the baseline (neither entry low nor high end). It just "is."

    The question I always ask is, what would be classified as superior to it (please don't say the middy gas system).

    Let's say I use a quality Forged upper and lower.
    How do you know they are quality? What is the tell? Did you measure every single inch of it? Did you check the surface hardness or verify that they are 7075?

    Lap the receiver face. A noveske barrel, DD Lite Rail, and a BCG BCG. DD LPK and a Geissele trigger. Sopmod stock and BCM RE, spring, and heavy buffer.
    These are actually personal preferences and does ZERO to make the weapon more reliable.



    Is the TDP a metric to use against a pure and simple battle rifle or does it translate to specialized builds?

    I use it against any gun that is going to be used to bet your life on. I ignore such things as the gas system and really focus on the meat and potatoes of what the TDP says.


    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 10-19-12 at 15:11.

  8. #18
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    You can't read deviations from the TDP as compromises to quality.

    There are many reasons why Colt would deviate from the TDP.

    Oftentimes manufacturing sequences are modified because it's discovered that something can be made faster or cheaper some other way, without compromising quality. For example, maybe a process that calls for three manufacturing steps in the TDP can actually be done in two.

    Remember: Colt still has to meet material and process specifications, so any deviation from the TDP would have to take that into account.

    Remember also that semi-auto-only AR's have slightly different parts in some areas than the select fire military version. That in and of itself is a deviation from the TDP.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Yes and no. You will get both answers. I look at the TDP as the baseline (neither entry low nor high end). It just "is."

    The question I always ask is, what would be classified as superior to it (please don't say the middy gas system).



    How do you know they are quality? What is the tell? Did you measure every single inch of it? Did you check the surface hardness or verify that they are 7075?



    These are actually personal preferences and does ZERO to make the weapon more reliable.






    I use it against any gun that is going to be used to bet your life on. I ignore such things as the gas system and really focus on the meat and potatoes of what the TDP says.


    C4
    I usually stay away from these threads, but some of this makes me wonder why my Daniel Defense rifles should be trusted. They're not Colts. Why would they have any more of the tdp than a bcm or a bm or a dpms or an oly? If no one has the tdp except Colt?

    Is this just personal experience with these rifles, or confidence in the builder, or what?

    I trust them fine, I'm just wondering what we're talking about here.
    Last edited by ryr8828; 10-19-12 at 16:12.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    When they do deviate from the TDP (which they do), it is because they have found a better solution that is superior.

    C4
    I don't think that's necessarily true. I know I'm nit picking here but I hate the word "better" when talking about specifications. Something either meets requirements or it doesn't. Or it meets it enough that your customer accepts it anyway because you've justified to them that the deviation would not impact fit, form or function.

    If Colt is deviating because they found a "better" way, they should be revising their specification instead of repeatedly asking for waivers according to ISO 9001:2008.


    *Disclaimer: I'm a certified ISO 9001:2008 lead auditor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaykayyy
    And to the guys whining about spending more on training, and relying less on the hardware, you just sound like your [sic] trying to make yourself feel superior.

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