I cant tell them apart.
Magazines go in, bullets come out with boring predictability.
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I cant tell them apart.
Magazines go in, bullets come out with boring predictability.
"BRD, much like the Wutang clan, is nothing to f@ck with"
I think its a stretch to say the DD is superior, sure the DD comes better outfitted with accessories from the factory, but i personally would say they are sixes. Both are fantastic guns. Are there improvements to the TDP? I think so, examples are KAC's E3 bolt and IWS lowers, LMT's MRP platform, Vltor's A5 receiver extention, ect.
Last edited by VIP3R 237; 10-22-12 at 01:22.
If folks would take time to research the subject and do a little analysis of the data, they would be able to come up with reasonable conclusions and spare us the wilder speculations.
I have worked on military aviation contracts. The TDP covers everything a company does to fulfill the contract they have with the .gov. Everything. Changes can be made to the TDP to change how things are done as needed to speed up production or make improvements to quality or for a variety of other reasons. The TDP must be followed or the company will be fined or even lose the contract. If a competitor can get hold of the TDP, they can use that information to great advantage in the next bidding cycle.
Colt subcontracts many of the parts used to assemble their rifles. Those companies may not get the TDP but they will be given the standards Colt needs them to meet in order to satisfy the .gov. Any company that does get any part of the TDP to manufacture parts for Colt will have to sign a non-disclosure agreement. However, that's not to say the sun-contractors will be forbidden from manufacturing larger lots to be able to sell to other AR makers.
A good example of this is bolts made from Carpenter Steel. This is a special alloy and is very expensive unless bought in large lots. A small company couldn't buy a small lot of Carpenter steel and make just a few bolts at competitive prices. AR bolts are likely to be made by one company who buys Carpenter steel in large lots and produces bolts for Colt and everyone else. It's more cost effective just to make all the bolts to Colt specs than to make them two or three different ways. (My guess is this is the real reason KAC bolts are not made from carpenter steel.) Colt gets what they need, the rest get sold to other companies and everyone wins because costs are kept low.
While no one but Colt holds the TDP for the M4 (FN has the rights to the TDP for the M16), Colts subs the work out for various parts. Other companies benefit by being able to buy parts from lots made to Colt specs and Colt benefits by having costs lowered through larger production runs.
We are seeing the result of this as more makers offer carpenter steel bolts and FN barrels.
I have no insider information but this is my conclusion from the data I have gleaned on the subject. It may not be 100% spot on, but it makes sense according to what I know and my own experiences working under a TDP. I know there are those on this forum who can correct me if I'm wrong
INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
- ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
- MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
- MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
- BOOM!
- HA-HA!!
-WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"
I am American
This is actually true (that companies can exceed what the TDP calls out).
The question I have is, what are they??? We have to be careful and separate personal choices in gas systems, FCG's, etc and what actually improves the reliability of the weapon.
I look forward to hearing your answers.
C4
From what I have seen colt does a lot of in house work. They machine most everything themselves. They may buy the raw forgings bu they machine them in house.
Lowers
Round bar stock which will make the barrels.
Machining the bolt carrier.
Blanks done in house and machine/rifled.
Bolts.
I think its safe to say alot of the TDP is in house. When smaller places get carpenter 158 bolts im sure it comes like in the pics, but then they have to build to their own specs not the TDP.
-A bolt that doesn't shear lugs in the same spot and reliably crack at the cam pin hole.
-An adjustable gas system that can compensate for weak ammo and eroded gas port.
-Slower cyclic rate in general via heavier buffer or revised gas port size to allow for more reliable extraction.
-Free floated barrel & under barrel accessory monolithic upper receiver.
Originally Posted by Jaykayyy
1. Agree.
2. Would be nice, but does not really make a gun that much more reliable.
3. Since most M4's are shot ONLY on SA, not really important IMHO.
4. Happens now (SOCOM orders guns with DD RIS's).
So really, just the first one directly affects reliability over the long term. Can you list which companies have improved upon the bolt?
C4
Last edited by C4IGrant; 10-22-12 at 09:58.
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