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Thread: What exactly is in the Colt TDP

  1. #61
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    1. Agree.
    2. Would be nice, but does not really make a gun that much more reliable.It would make the gun more reliable across a wider range of circumstances. i.e. suppressed, dirty, improperly lubed
    3. Since most M4's are shot ONLY on SA, not really important IMHO. When they remove the happy switch, it will stop being important.
    4. Happens now (SOCOM orders guns with DD RIS's). Point taken, needs to be service wide IMO.
    5. Magazines that weren't designed to be disposable. Forgot this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    So really, just the first one directly affects reliability over the long term. Can you list which companies have improved upon the bolt?

    C4
    I think what Armalite did by relieving one of the lugs to spread the load more evenly was a very interesting solution, I forget who it was that just added more material around the cam pin hole area though. Are these surefire remedies? I don't know, I'm just a quality nerd not an engineer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaykayyy
    And to the guys whining about spending more on training, and relying less on the hardware, you just sound like your [sic] trying to make yourself feel superior.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    1. Agree.
    2. Would be nice, but does not really make a gun that much more reliable.
    3. Since most M4's are shot ONLY on SA, not really important IMHO.
    4. Happens now (SOCOM orders guns with DD RIS's).

    So really, just the first one directly affects reliability over the long term. Can you list which companies have improved upon the bolt?


    C4
    Only true way to improve upon the bolt of the AR-15 is to also alter the barrel extension. So KAC.

    A FF rail will also increase bolt life, but this is done by reducing pressure on the bolt lugs from the barrel extension becoming slightly miss aligned when pressure and weight is placed on a non FF rail.

    I think adjustable gas blocks are really not needed personally. The M4 does fine suppressed and you avoid somoen running their gun on the suppressed setting while not suppressed(you know itll happen).
    Last edited by sinlessorrow; 10-22-12 at 10:26.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    Only true way to improve upon the bolt of the AR-15 is to also alter the barrel extension. So KAC.
    In theory yes, but we have not seen any formal .Gov testing on this yet to prove it (nothing against what KAC claims, but I like to see head to head tests).

    A FF rail will also increase bolt life, but this is done by reducing pressure on the bolt lugs from the barrel extension becoming slightly miss aligned when pressure and weight is placed on a non FF rail.
    I would have to see a comparison between two identical guns (one with a FF and one without) to buy this argument that a FF rail keeps the barrel extension from moving.


    C4

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sry0fcr View Post
    1. Agree.
    2. Would be nice, but does not really make a gun that much more reliable.It would make the gun more reliable across a wider range of circumstances. i.e. suppressed, dirty, improperly lubed
    3. Since most M4's are shot ONLY on SA, not really important IMHO. When they remove the happy switch, it will stop being important.
    4. Happens now (SOCOM orders guns with DD RIS's). Point taken, needs to be service wide IMO.
    5. Magazines that weren't designed to be disposable. Forgot this one.
    3. No need to remove it as it is rarely used.
    4. Yes, but does it improve the overall reliability? Don't think so.
    5. True. Mags are usually the main problem with a gun not running. Then we run into PM's and trigger pullers knowledge about cleaning and lubrication.

    The M4's reputation amongst troops for not being reliable really comes from:

    1. Worn out mags.
    2. Armorers not doing their jobs, not having spare parts and not being skilled enough to fix or ID problems.
    3. Poor lubrication knowledge.


    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 10-22-12 at 10:47.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    In theory yes, but we have not seen any formal .Gov testing on this yet to prove it (nothing against what KAC claims, but I like to see head to head tests).



    I would have to see a comparison between two identical guns (one with a FF and one without) to buy this argument that a FF rail keeps the barrel extension from moving.


    C4
    I understand that. I think it was KevinB who initially stated it, mentioned Crane has some data on it for those with access, it is also a reason why the VLTOR MUR came out, according to them a upper that gave more consistant bolt travel increased bolt life in their tests.

    I do agree that I would like to see some tests data, for now I just go off things said by people in the know.


    Quote Originally Posted by KevinB View Post
    Additonally longer bolt life and increased reliability.

    *According to a telecon I had with Gus Taylor

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinB View Post
    back,

    I beleive that even a steel bbl nut affixed onto the rail will act as a heatsink to some extent.
    The advantages to the FF system (depending on mount type) can allieviate the pressure on the barrel from a vert grip etc.
    All weight on the barrel will contribute to forcing the barrel/barrel extension slightly out of alignment - thus forcing more pressure on one side of the bolt - especially on unlocking the locking lugs of the bolt will have unequal pressure exterted upon them - and thus lead to reduced bolt life.

    With a more uniform pressure/lock, this then decreases wear and inturn leads to great life and reliability. Additionally this is another place where thin barrels with suppressors suffer greater bolt failure than thicker barrels.

    Crane had a metric ton of data on this stuff for those with access who are curious.


    For me - popping a FSB is a minor issue - and I feel the added benifits of a FF rail are worth the few extra dollar for the rail, and the few minutes to pull the FSB and barrel to replace the nut etc.
    Im not sure what the true bolt life of the AR-15 is but I know Pat Rogers has numerous guns in the 15,000+ range with no broken bolts yet that they run in the EAG classes.
    Last edited by sinlessorrow; 10-22-12 at 12:19.
    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Colt builds War Horses, not show ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    In theory yes, but we have not seen any formal .Gov testing on this yet to prove it (nothing against what KAC claims, but I like to see head to head tests).C4
    I would also like to see some head to head testing done. I would say its a safe bet that the E3 bolt would live up to the claims IMO.
    I paint spaceship parts.

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  7. #67
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    Sorrow, thank you for posting those photos, particularly of the bolt blanks. On one hand, they answer a few questions. On the other, they raise a few
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

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  8. #68
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    I have a BCM bolt that has had just over 10K rounds through it. I have replaced the ejector spring only and it is still running strong. M855, M193, Hornady Steel TAP, etc... etc... and 65% of the time it was run suppressed.

    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    I understand that. I think it was KevinB who initially stated it, mentioned Crane has some data on it for those with access, it is also a reason why the VLTOR MUR came out, according to them a upper that gave more consistant bolt travel increased bolt life in their tests.

    I do agree that I would like to see some tests data, for now I just go off things said by people in the know.







    Im not sure what the true bolt life of the AR-15 is but I know Pat Rogers has numerous guns in the 15,000+ range with no broken bolts yet that they run in the EAG classes.



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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    Sorrow, thank you for posting those photos, particularly of the bolt blanks. On one hand, they answer a few questions. On the other, they raise a few
    Colt makes EVERYTHING in house and also goes through contractors.




    C4

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIP3R 237 View Post
    I would say its a safe bet that the E3 bolt would live up to the claims IMO.
    Absolutely. Understand what Grant is saying, but that said, the design of the standard bolt being what it is, and how it fails; the E3 design is an improvement.
    Last edited by Palmguy; 10-23-12 at 10:10.

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