Kel-Tec KSG

[BioLayne]

from what I've heard, early production of v1 of the gun had a LOT of problems. But apparently the newer production models seem to have fixed those issues and it's running smoothly from what i've read. Admittedly I've not fired one, but I am intrigued. If they can make it reliable, having 14+1 12 gauge with that short of a gun is an extreme tactical advantage in a home defense situation. I know what people are thinking "if you need more than 4-5 shots of a SG to finish off a BG you should just quit shooting." My response to that is that one thing I've NEVER heard is "gee I sure wish I had not brought all those rounds to that gunfight."

That said, seems like par for the course for kel-tec is release and innovative gun with a TON of issues, but to have good customer service and fix the issues in follow up production runs. Does anyone know if their buddies who have a KSG had trouble getting kel-tec to fix things? I've heard nothing but positive things about their customer service.

[DMR]

I had this posted on LF, but thought I would put it in here

C-SOG KSG Review

Some of it reminds me of the comment Awerbuck recently made in SWAT about testing the KSG, and having been familure with the Neostead and shotguns in general, he thought he knew what he was doing. Instead he had multiple issues, mostly operator induced because the KSG is a very differant animal. In the Feb 12 issue, Humble Pie Time - Training and Tactics
and starts out with the following:

Familiarity breeds contempt.

It also paradoxically breeds a fight-winning firearms mechanical manipulation foundation.

Obviously the shootist’s ability to fluidly and reflexively operate a firearm is directly proportionate to his performance in battle, but never has this been hammered home to me more than during a recent range session.

C-SOG is a intersting company so I'm not going to provde much comment on the company. We had some interaction with them a few years ago. The reviewer is most likely shooting Less Lethals during the review.

[interfan]

There is a less than stellar review in Surefire's Combat Tactics mag this month. From what the article's author said the big issues come down to Keltec's engineering and quality being crap and the feed tube design.

I have had zero experience with Keltec's products and can't fairly comment on their actual quality, but the KSG I saw at a customer's office the other day has the feel of a toy gun. The user of it said it was basically too fragile for real world use and they broke the top rail off already when they caught the Aimpoint they had mounted on a vehicle door. They said that they just don't have any confidence in it, so it is sitting in an office rather than being used.

It is an interesting concept, that is for sure, but maybe it needs some more development time.

[Noodles]

Seems to me you could make thing out of steel and it would still have obvious glaring issues.

No ammo change-overs except for A tube to B tube. So if you think you might need a single slug, you have to carry 7 or at least one or two in-front on the B tube. But, if you decide maybe you want bird/less lethal/whatever round, too bad because the chamber in under the gun and from what I've seen and heard swapping a single round in is not at all fast or easy.

No clearing malfunctions easily. Chamber is under the gun and not easily accessible, think on the move or not wanting to turn the gun over and focus down ward away from your target.

Reloading has the same issues. I talked to a KSG owner that said "pretty much, when it's empty, you walk back to the car to figure out how to reload it". This was a joke mostly, but he also made the point there are not many videos of people doing reloads, just shooting. IMO, if you have a shotgun that requires you to turn it upside down and focus on reloading, it's lost all the versatility advantages of a shotgun and you might as well select a carbine.

edit: I should mention I took Costa's shotgun class, and not only has no one shown up with a KSG (because of availability mostly I guess) there were some people with first hand and second hand experience and no one considered the gun a real option compared to an 870 or Benelli despite it held more rounds when fresh.

For what it's worth, anyone that doesn't see the issues with the KSG after watching this video (watch his speed and his eyes), probably shouldn't be using a shotgun as a go-to weapon... imo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q__tYhNaGTg I don't fault the guy in the video, it's probably really tough to do. The issue is that even if you commit that the KSG is your house gun and if 14 rounds of #1 buck won't solve your issue and that after that you're just ****ed (good reasoning really), I would still be extremely cautious about trying to clear a malfunction in a HD situation.

[Doc. Holiday]

I think it's safe to say that there are better options out there for those who are looking for a HD weapon.

[Noodles]

First twenty seconds, and then at the 6:30 mark. No matter how tired I was after 600 rounds of 12ga during Costa's class, not once did I sit down on my ass with the gun upside down to load like this.

The best one at 10:48... then not a minute later has a jam that takes WAY too long to clear. I'm not watching anymore of that to find more examples. I think I've made my point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii_wgxaLiak

Edit: It's a shame too... I REALLY wanted to like the KSG as an alternative to an SBS or normal 870.

[Doc. Holiday]

I'm right there with ya. I was super stoked to get my hands on one of these. Then the reviews and the videos started to come... I have to admit, him loading the gun upside down like that was pretty funny.

[Armati]

I really wanted this thing to work too, but I have not seen a good manual of arms for it. The mag selector switch is the sort of thing that you should be able to operate while keeping the weapon pointed in the general direction of the target. Everyone I have seen run this thing takes it off target to hit this switch.

Loading also seems problematic. Keeping a shotgun stoked at all times is the name of the game. If you have nothing else to do between shots, keep putting rounds in the tube. Tactical reloads with the KSG seem nearly impossible. Everyone I have seen (on YouTube) run it has to stop, turn the gun over, study the ejection port, place the round deeeep into the receiver and push it into the mag tube. Ok, with any luck the gun fight or course of fire will be over in 14rds but I cannot abide the fact that everything must come to a halt to load a round into the KSG. A good shotgunner can top off a conventional shotgun on the move, at night, without looking at the gun at all.

[Noodles]

I really wanted this thing to work too, but I have not seen a good manual of arms for it. The mag selector switch is the sort of thing that you should be able to operate while keeping the weapon pointed in the general direction of the target. Everyone I have seen run this thing takes it off target to hit this switch.

Loading also seems problematic. Keeping a shotgun stocked at all times is the name of the game. If you have nothing else to do between shots, keep putting rounds in the tube. Tactical reloads with the KSG seem nearly impossible. Everyone I have seen (on YouTube) run it has to stop, turn the gun over, study the ejection port, place the round deeeep into the receiver and push it into the mag tube. Ok, with any luck the gun fight or course of fire will be over in 14rds but I cannot abide the fact that everything must come to a halt to load a round into the KSG. A good shotgunner can top off a conventional shotgun on the move, at night, without looking at the gun at all.

Agreed on all counts. And I'm glad other people realize a turd when they see it!

Although I suppose someone could make that argument for the KSG being a disposable gun. Don't tactical reload it, don't practice combat loads or malfunction clearing. When it's empty or jams just dump it and transition to handgun.

If they didn't jam so thoroughly when they jam, I suppose someone could also make a point that as a house gun, the KSG 'should' have all the ammo one needs. Like an AR user that doesn't have an extra mag near the gun. That said, they do seem to jam in a proper-****ed fashion, which is embarrassing for a pump.

Typical Kel-Tec, have a cool idea, botch the production parts, which doesn't make a difference because they only make three a year anyhow.

I suppose I've put in enough thought it that, I don't care if it holds 30 rounds. It's not as good a serious defensive weapon as an 870 or a Benelli.

[Armati]

Until I see guys running this thing in competitions or taking them to shotgun classes, it will be relegated to the tacticool set. There are way too many proven shotgun systems around to justify dropping a grand on a neat gimmick.